Admin DavidOwen Posted 31 July , 2018 Admin Share Posted 31 July , 2018 (edited) According to the Monthly Army List for January 1918 Captain EC Smith was ATTACHED to the 1st/2nd Bn East Surrey Regiment. Date quoted as 27th September 1915. See top of furthest right hand column: However in March 1917's list Captain EC Smith is the Adjudant of the 3rd Reserve Battalion - note commission date is different to above as 23rd August 1916 See second column Will check the King's Liverpool lists to see if EC Smith appears in the March 1917 one. Edited 31 July , 2018 by DavidOwen added March 17 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HolymoleyRE Posted 31 July , 2018 Share Posted 31 July , 2018 On 29/07/2018 at 16:18, Janet Durbin said: I am a volunteer at NT Polesden Lacey. During WW1 it served as a convalescent hospital for officers. I have been able to identify eighty officers and write a biography of them to share with our visitors. This officer has stumped me. I have attached his signature with his regiment alongside. I would love to add him to our commemorative book and talks this autumn for 100 years activities at the house. I really hope that you might be able to help. Janet Janet are we able to get a wider shot of the image, as there are other annotations surrounding it that may help with context in the document. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin DavidOwen Posted 31 July , 2018 Admin Share Posted 31 July , 2018 Update to my post #26 above. Couldn't find EC Smith listed in the March 1917 lists for the King's (Liverpool) Regiment but did find him listed as a 2nd Lieutenant in the Machine Gun Corps (6 Bn Liverpool Regiment) commission dates 7th September 1915 and 26th February 1916. Given the two EC Smiths both appear separately in the March 17 lists and that the commission date on the attached EC Smith in the 1918 list is almost identical to Edmond Clifford Smith (2)7 September 1915 I would hazard to suggest the attached Smith (1918) is not the same officer as the Captain EC Smith listed in March 17. See second column below. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin DavidOwen Posted 31 July , 2018 Admin Share Posted 31 July , 2018 My curiosity has got the better of me and I have commissioned a researcher to copy Edmond Clifford Smith's service file. If it turns out to be Janet's man I shall happily share it with her, if not then I will have something new to read.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HolymoleyRE Posted 31 July , 2018 Share Posted 31 July , 2018 (edited) 21 hours ago, DavidOwen said: My curiosity has got the better of me and I have commissioned a researcher to copy Edmond Clifford Smith's service file. If it turns out to be Janet's man I shall happily share it with her, if not then I will have something new to read.... You may want to hold on paying out just yet... I think Harry Clifford Smith...is this man https://trove.nla.gov.au/work/3648304 Born in 1876, A HCS potential had a brother Eustace C Smith born 1878....served in 1908 as an Officer in the Indian Army and 1926 has him and presumption is he is with his wife Lillian travelling to Mombasa ....Occupation retired Lieutentant Colonel. Now I am not saying E Clifford Smith is Lt Col Eustace C Smith born 1879, but perhaps his son or Harry's...going back to the using 'Clifford' as his known name theory. But the chances are he is a born in India child, hence he is harder to find. Andy Edited 1 August , 2018 by HolymoleyRE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HolymoleyRE Posted 31 July , 2018 Share Posted 31 July , 2018 (edited) So got a bit more digging to do...but it would appear that Harry Clifford married a Fanny Elizabeth his widow on his 1960 probate.... Edited 1 August , 2018 by HolymoleyRE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HolymoleyRE Posted 1 August , 2018 Share Posted 1 August , 2018 (edited) Just when you think you have found the answer.....now throw in the mix, another Harold C Smith born 1876, the son of Arthur Clifford Smith (Wine Merchant), who too has a younger brother Edward C Smith, who I believe to be Edward Clinton Smith. I now think this Harold C Smith is our visting Harold Clifford Smith, who by 1911 is a Civil Servant appearing as a Vistor at Newton Hall, Cambridge (A Gade 2 listed building) along with other learned figures. I think the reason why it lists Fanny Elizabeth (nee Forrow) as widow is she is the widow of Edward Clinton Smith who died in 1951, so it is title rather than her status with HCS. Now back to Edward Clinton Smith, commissioned in 1915...into what appears to be the 10th East Surreys... On the 1918 electoral role he is listed as NM living with his brother Harold Clifford Smith in Kensington.... The 10th Service Battalion never served overseas, nor did the 3rd Btn...so is the '5' a '3'...and he moved between the reserve and Depot Btn...and preffered to be called Clifford...than Clinton! He was still going strong in 1943 as a Cadet Officer in Suffolk. As such his Officer file is still at MoD.... Edited 1 August , 2018 by HolymoleyRE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HolymoleyRE Posted 1 August , 2018 Share Posted 1 August , 2018 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HolymoleyRE Posted 1 August , 2018 Share Posted 1 August , 2018 (edited) 1901 census confirm's Harold Clifford Smith. Assistant at the Victoria & Albert Musuem. I accutely aware the Harold Clifford Smiths presence, may be pure circumstance, knowing his professional background and Polesden being a National Trust property now. And E Clifford Smith could still be Edmund Clifford Smith... Edited 1 August , 2018 by HolymoleyRE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Janet Durbin Posted 2 August , 2018 Author Share Posted 2 August , 2018 Again thank you all. Holymoley I do agree with your reference to the NT 're Harold Clifford Smith, but worth mentioning as generations of families did visit the house. Still holding out for Edmund. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Janet Durbin Posted 3 August , 2018 Author Share Posted 3 August , 2018 Again thank you all. Holymoley I do agree with your reference to the NT 're Harold Clifford Smith, but worth mentioning as generations of families did visit the house. Still holding out for Edmund. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Janet Durbin Posted 3 August , 2018 Author Share Posted 3 August , 2018 Okay. I spent over four hours in the archive of Edward VII hospital but although I traced 18 of my officers I was unable to find anyone with a name similar to this. Disappointed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin DavidOwen Posted 5 August , 2018 Admin Share Posted 5 August , 2018 (edited) On 03/08/2018 at 09:03, Janet Durbin said: Disappointed. Don't be. EC Smith's service file contains examples of his signature (which changed significantly during his service) of which two (later) examples are below I believe we can call these a match for the original? A quick summary of his career: Attested 30/11/1914 with 6th (Reserve) Bn King's (Liverpool) Regiment serving as a rifleman on Home service until 07-09-15 when he was commissioned 2nd Lieutenant (to complete establishment). Arrived in France Jan 1916 and was twice wounded, the second time at Gueudecourt on the Somme on 25-09-1916 whilst serving with MGC (record states 165th brigade (sic) MGC Coy), by shell and bullet wounds to left leg causing a compound fracture of tibia, repatriated home October 3rd 1916 and returned to duty 14/07/1917 with MGC. Underwent several medical boards and on 16/9/1918 applied for a transfer to ASC-MT as he was "unable to march more than a few miles". This application was turned down due to "insufficient technical qualifications". He was granted a £250 wound gratuity but was refused a pension as the medical boards did not consider his disability as being permanent. He was restored to the 6th Bn on 20-08-1920 "on ceasing to be employed by MGC". He applied to be enrolled in the Officers Emergency Reserve on 13-12-1939 and was accepted. The frustration is there is no record of an attachment to 3rd East Surrey Regiment. He spent his time when returned to duty at the Grantham MGC depot. attending his Medical Boards in Colchester. I shall be sending Janet a copy of his service file via snail mail. Regards David PS - might it have been an address after his name rather than a regiment as he didn't "return to duty" until 14/07/1917? Edited 5 August , 2018 by DavidOwen Added PS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin DavidOwen Posted 16 August , 2018 Admin Share Posted 16 August , 2018 Thanks to Janet Lieutenant Edmund Clifford Smith is now remembered on the Lives of the First World War site https://livesofthefirstworldwar.org/lifestory/7691695 To see those other Officers Janet has researched as having been convalescing or visiting Polesden Lacey please follow this link https://livesofthefirstworldwar.org/profile/97185 Well done indeed Janet! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Janet Durbin Posted 8 November , 2019 Author Share Posted 8 November , 2019 Just when you think that it is all over. Today I was contacted by the daughter of Edward Clinton Smith, 1878 – 1951, was wounded in August 1916. He was a captain in the East Surreys & convalesced at Polesden Lacey, where he was visited by his elder brother, Harold Clifford Smith of the V & A. So HolyMoley HE , looks like you were right and the gentleman preferred using the Clifford name. Major rewrite needed. Bonus is that Lives have the History of an otherwise 'unknown' officer' and I am going to be busy again! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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