Janet Durbin Posted 29 July , 2018 Share Posted 29 July , 2018 I am a volunteer at NT Polesden Lacey. During WW1 it served as a convalescent hospital for officers. I have been able to identify eighty officers and write a biography of them to share with our visitors. This officer has stumped me. I have attached his signature with his regiment alongside. I would love to add him to our commemorative book and talks this autumn for 100 years activities at the house. I really hope that you might be able to help. Janet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin Michelle Young Posted 29 July , 2018 Admin Share Posted 29 July , 2018 Welcome to the forum. E Clifford Smith 5 East Surreys. At least that's what I think it says. Michelle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daggers Posted 29 July , 2018 Share Posted 29 July , 2018 Agreed, and another welcome. D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johndavidswarbrick Posted 29 July , 2018 Share Posted 29 July , 2018 1914-1915 Star Medal Roll for East Surreys has a Captain E. C. Smith disembarked France on 7th October 1915 BWM & Victory Medal Roll for East Surreys has the same man Strangely I can't find an actual medal card for him. It's probably him, but he should have an officer's file with the National Archives and I can't seem to see that either - probably me just having a bad day. Dave Swarbrick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corisande Posted 29 July , 2018 Share Posted 29 July , 2018 (edited) Actually this man is much closer - but whooops no "Clifford" so forget him His address is 16 Selsdon Rd, West Norwood on MIC Edited 29 July , 2018 by corisande Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phsvm Posted 29 July , 2018 Share Posted 29 July , 2018 But he was Edward CHARLES Smith and the signature is quite clearly E CLIFFORD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johndavidswarbrick Posted 29 July , 2018 Share Posted 29 July , 2018 (edited) The East Surrey Medal Roll also has Lieutenant E. C. Smith - who is probably the Edward Charles Smith whose medal card was posted by Corisande The National Archives holds Edward Charles Smith's service record ref: WO 374/63283 - still can't find E. Clifford Smith Dave Swarbrick Edited 29 July , 2018 by johndavidswarbrick addition Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HolymoleyRE Posted 29 July , 2018 Share Posted 29 July , 2018 I had found this man...commissioned in 1915 from Private..but as yet cannot find much more on him, to see if he moves on from the KLR. Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin DavidOwen Posted 30 July , 2018 Admin Share Posted 30 July , 2018 (edited) Service record for Lieutenant Edmond Clifford Smith, The King's (Liverpool Regt) is at TNA here http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C733403 (note spelling of first name) David Edited 30 July , 2018 by DavidOwen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johndavidswarbrick Posted 30 July , 2018 Share Posted 30 July , 2018 E. C. Smith, 2nd Lieutenant King's [Liverpool Regiment] and Machine Gun Corps was recorded as wounded on a casualty list dated 8th October 1916 Possibly the son of Robert and Jane Smith - in 1911 living at 2, St George's Avenue, Birkenhead - at that date father was a marine engineer and Edmund Clifford was a 14 year old schoolboy. Dave Swarbrick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corisande Posted 30 July , 2018 Share Posted 30 July , 2018 As far as I can see, there is NO 5th East Surrey, but there is a 1/5 and a 2/5 The war diary of 1/5 gives a list of officers in Dec 1917 and no EC Smith (admittedly this does not mean a lot other than there was no EC Smith in the battalion on that date On reflection it will be difficult to prove an E Clifford Smith transferred to 5 East Surrey as we know that there is a E Charles Smith there, and most entries will only be with initials Having said that Edmund Clifford Smith is living in Surrey from post war electoral rolls (again that does not mean a lot) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EastSurrey Posted 30 July , 2018 Share Posted 30 July , 2018 A Lt. E.C.Smith is in the list of 9/E.Surrey officers who served overseas with it. Commissioned 12.1914, he joined the battalion 10.10.15 and went home sick 2.3.16-neurasthenia. However, his name was Eric Courtney Smith (file WO339/17573). He later served in Mesopotamia E. Surrey-attached Loyals. Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HolymoleyRE Posted 30 July , 2018 Share Posted 30 July , 2018 (edited) A number of EC Smiths pop with no indication of overseas service and a 3rd East Surrey...but no hint of names.. Edited 30 July , 2018 by HolymoleyRE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johndavidswarbrick Posted 30 July , 2018 Share Posted 30 July , 2018 Extract from the Surrey Mirror 10th December 1915 EAST SURREY REGIMENT To be Temporary Lieutenants: … E. C. Smith …[from Reserve Battalion] [probably relates to Edward Charles] Dave Swarbrick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Janet Durbin Posted 30 July , 2018 Author Share Posted 30 July , 2018 22 hours ago, Michelle Young said: Welcome to the forum. E Clifford Smith 5 East Surreys. At least that's what I think it says. Michelle On 29/07/2018 at 16:18, Janet Durbin said: I am a volunteer at NT Polesden Lacey. During WW1 it served as a convalescent hospital for officers. I have been able to identify eighty officers and write a biography of them to share with our visitors. This officer has stumped me. I have attached his signature with his regiment alongside. I would love to add him to our commemorative book and talks this autumn for 100 years activities at the house. I really hope that you might be able to help. Janet Thank you. That's how I read it too. 23 hours ago, Michelle Young said: Welcome to the forum. E Clifford Smith 5 East Surreys. At least that's what I think it says. Michelle Thank you too. I agree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Janet Durbin Posted 30 July , 2018 Author Share Posted 30 July , 2018 Thank you all. I have read the war diaries of the East Surrey Regiment for E C Smith. I also found Edmond Clifford Smith in the Liverpool Regiment. Discovered the same as you in effect. So I have been wondering if the signature ends with a k not a th. Don't want to buy the record from Kew if it's the wrong Smith! Also is there another regiment called Earl Jenny's. He must have been an officer. He was recovering in 1916, no medical treatment at Polesden. As you can see I am really having problems here. Harry Clifford Smith, specialist in furniture and jewellery, working at the V&A visited Polesden as a guest. Haven't been able to see if he was a relative. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin DavidOwen Posted 30 July , 2018 Admin Share Posted 30 July , 2018 Don't forget Edmond Clifford Smith if with the MGC could have been "attached" at the time of his wounding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Janet Durbin Posted 30 July , 2018 Author Share Posted 30 July , 2018 Sorry David Owen. What do you mean by MAC and the attached comment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phsvm Posted 30 July , 2018 Share Posted 30 July , 2018 MGC - Machine Gun Corps. attached means not permanently transferred but there 'on attachment'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HolymoleyRE Posted 30 July , 2018 Share Posted 30 July , 2018 (edited) 2 hours ago, Janet Durbin said: Sorry David Owen. What do you mean by MAC and the attached comment. Officers were quite often attached to other Battalions and other Corps, but kept their orginal cap badge....but am/would be suprised that he wouldn't have signed it MGC... I think by the fact Clifford Smith is written in full and the E is not, then we are arguably looking for double barrelled name, rather than a middle name. Edmund Clifford are his christian names...according to his baptism record. Andy Edited 30 July , 2018 by HolymoleyRE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin DavidOwen Posted 31 July , 2018 Admin Share Posted 31 July , 2018 10 hours ago, HolymoleyRE said: I think by the fact Clifford Smith is written in full and the E is not, then we are arguably looking for double barrelled name, rather than a middle name. Edmund Clifford are his christian names...according to his baptism record. Andy A search of MIC in TNA provides just one return for a "Clifford-Smith" but he is Harold Charles a 2nd Lt in Royal Berkshire Regiment so not him. Might his father have also been Edmund, in which case he may well have used Clifford as his preferred first name? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liz in Eastbourne Posted 31 July , 2018 Share Posted 31 July , 2018 10 hours ago, HolymoleyRE said: Officers were quite often attached to other Battalions and other Corps, but kept their orginal cap badge....but am/would be suprised that he wouldn't have signed it MGC... I think by the fact Clifford Smith is written in full and the E is not, then we are arguably looking for double barrelled name, rather than a middle name. Edmund Clifford are his christian names...according to his baptism record. Andy Andy, I don't think the way the name is written implied a double-barrelled surname - it is more likely simply to mean he used his second rather than his first name. I've had many cases of this during the period. Your last point supports this. As DavidOwen suggests, that was often because the first name was given for the father. Or grandfather. Liz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Janet Durbin Posted 31 July , 2018 Author Share Posted 31 July , 2018 On Thursday I am going to Edward VII hospital where some/most of our officers came from. I am hoping that they might have his record there. Frustrating that his signature is relatively clear and that he has recorded his regiment but he is so hard to nail. He is the last of so many! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HolymoleyRE Posted 31 July , 2018 Share Posted 31 July , 2018 4 hours ago, DavidOwen said: A search of MIC in TNA provides just one return for a "Clifford-Smith" but he is Harold Charles a 2nd Lt in Royal Berkshire Regiment so not him. Might his father have also been Edmund, in which case he may well have used Clifford as his preferred first name? His father was Robert and mother was Jane. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TTracer44 Posted 31 July , 2018 Share Posted 31 July , 2018 On 30/07/2018 at 09:00, johndavidswarbrick said: E. C. Smith, 2nd Lieutenant King's [Liverpool Regiment] and Machine Gun Corps was recorded as wounded on a casualty list dated 8th October 1916 Possibly the son of Robert and Jane Smith - in 1911 living at 2, St George's Avenue, Birkenhead - at that date father was a marine engineer and Edmund Clifford was a 14 year old schoolboy. Dave Swarbrick Edmund Clifford Smith- birth registration on FreeBMD dec 1896 Birkenhead which would tie in nicely with the above, but doesn’t answer the East Surrey part of it, that’s if it does say East Surrey not convinced it does! But don’t have an alternative either. Den Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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