Rifleman Edward Arthur Coleman, « C »Coy 9th (Service) Batt Rifle Brigade, Service N° S/9017

[George Millar]

Hello all,

I’m doing some research on the above named soldier.  He was born in Islington, London in the 2nd Quarter of 1899 to parents Cecil & Margaret Coleman.  In the 1901 census the family lived at N° 12 Balls Pond Road in Islington but by the 1911 census they had moved to N° 25 Marquess Road, still in Islington.  Edward Arthur enlisted on the 15th March 1915 at Shoreditch and he gave his age as 19 years although he was still only 16.  He listed his occupation as a “Builder’s Assistant” and his address as “29 Aberdeen Park, Highbury”.

On enlistment, he was initially posted to the 14th (Reserve) Battalion to commence his training to become a soldier and then posted to the 9th (Service) Battalion before he departed for Belgium on the 6th October 1915 to join his new battalion which had already been in Belgium since May 1915. In his Service records which have fortunately survived, he was listed as “Wounded” on the 5th January 1916 but then later confirmed that he had in fact been “Killed in Action” on the 6th January 1916 aged only 17years.

According to the 9th Battalion’s War Diary, they were at “Elverdinghe” at the beginning of 1916 and on the 4th to the 7th January were in trenches F35, F34, F33, F32, F31, S33 & S32.  They sustained 18 other ranks killed by enemy sniping and machine gun fire and I presume that Edward Arthur was one of these 18 men killed.  He is among the missing and his name is recorded on Panel 46 to 48 and 50 of the Ypres (Menin Gate) Memorial.

However, in his Service records he is listed as having been buried and it gives the place of his burial as follows:

Map Sheet 28 (1/40000 scale) – map ref: C.13.b.c.4

I know that many soldiers who were buried had their graves destroyed during the ebb and flow of battle and probably lost due to shell fire but I was wondering if any forum member could pinpoint the exact spot of his original burial.  Any information would be appreciated.  (By the way, his name is listed as Edward Arthur Colman (without the e) on his Medal Index Card although his mother indicated to the authorities the error on his medals)

Thanks in advance

George

[clk]

Hi George,

 

This is square C.13.

 

The image is taken from a larger map which is in the 14 Division HQ (general staff) diary - Ancestry link. Sub square 'b' is in the top right hand corner. There is advice on reading trench map coordinates on the LLT here

 

Regards

Chris

 

Edit:

If you get the full map reference you can put it into this website to see where it is in the modern landscape.

 

 

Edited 17 July , 2018 by clk

[George Millar]

Hi Chris,

 

Many thanks for the map and the other information.  I've downloaded the complete map from Ancestry which gives me a better idea of the location but I'll try and do what you say and see where it fits in the modern landscape.  This will add another little bit to Edward Arthur's life story.  Once again, many thanks.

 

Best Regards

 

George

[stiletto_33853]

George,

Similarly from the 20th Division appendices, they took over from the 14th Division in early 1916.

 

Andy

[George Millar]

Hi Andy,

 

Thanks for the reply and the map.

 

Chris,

I've been reading "How to read a British Trench Map"  but there seems to be a problem with the reference that I have.  Most references seem to consist mainly of numbers eg B14d.1.2 but the reference from his service records give the reference C13b.c.4 (see attached record below).  Do you think there was an error when it was listed?

 

Regards

 

George

 

[clk]

Hi George,

 

Yes, I noticed that but didn't want to draw you to a conclusion. For what it's worth, if pressed, I thought that it might be a mal formed zero. I did also consider a six, or eight - a number with a loop at the bottom, but given the total height compared to the other numerals in the reference I thought that on balance it probably wasn't  just a bottom loop.

 

As an alternative to seeing the modern view of the landscape, this link should open up on a map (albeit from 1917) with C.13 in the centre. You can zoom in/out, and use the transparency slider to blend the map with a current view.

 

Regards

Chris

 

 

[MBrockway]

5 hours ago, George Millar said:

However, in his Service records he is listed as having been buried and it gives the place of his burial as follows:

 

Map Sheet 28 (1/40000 scale) – map ref: C.13.b.c.4

 

I know that many soldiers who were buried had their graves destroyed during the ebb and flow of battle and probably lost due to shell fire but I was wondering if any forum member could pinpoint the exact spot of his original burial.  Any information would be appreciated.  (By the way, his name is listed as Edward Arthur Colman (without the e) on his Medal Index Card although his mother indicated to the authorities the error on his medals)

 

Thanks in advance

 

George

 

 

George,

I've been struggling with that map reference for the last hour!  It is indeed in an incorrect format if you read it as 28.C.13.b.c.4.

 

The final letter 'c' could be a zero, giving 28.C.13.b.0.4, which points to an area known as COLNE VALLEY.  Note that even this is a box 50 yds by 50 yds - the British trench refs are a grid system, not a co-ordinate system,so increasing precision in the reference just gives smaller boxes containing the target location, never an exact point.

 

This map overlay from further on in the war diaries shows trenches F35, F34, F33, F32 and F31 a bit more clearly and I have also added (approximately) the box  that ref 28.C.13.b.0.4 points to ...

 

 

 

Mark

 

 

 

Edited 17 July , 2018 by MBrockway

[MBrockway]

This overlay shows the two support trenches S32 and S33 better and also names COLNE VALLEY.  The ref plots to just N of the trench at Colne Valley, which perhaps males better sense for a battlefield interment better.  This overlay also includes the grid lines, so if you print off a hard copy and divide out the squares into tenths, you can plot the square more exactly yourself.  C.13.b is the square to the NE of the '13' Index label.

 

 

We have a number of topics covering this far left sector of the British Line, which include some good maps from both British and German material.  If you search using the phrase  'International Trench', you should turn them up fairly easily, just be aware that some of the results will cover a completely different International Trench down near The Bluff.

 

Mark

 

Edited 17 July , 2018 by MBrockway
Additional content added

[George Millar]

Hi Chris and Mark,

 

Thanks once again for taking the time to look at this.  Having thought about the reference again, normally the squares are devided into 10 along the x axis and ten along the y axis, perhaps in place of numbers for the x axis the person writing in the records was using letters a to J therefore the c might be regarded as a 3 so his burial would have been in 3 x 3 which would make it close to the road in the map.  What do you think.

Regards

George

[MBrockway]

2 minutes ago, George Millar said:

Hi Chris and Mark,

 

Thanks once again for taking the time to look at this.  Having thought about the reference again, normally the squares are devided into 10 along the x axis and ten along the y axis, perhaps in place of numbers for the x axis the person writing in the records was using letters a to J therefore the c might be regarded as a 3 so his burial would have been in 3 x 3 which would make it close to the road in the map.  What do you think.

Regards

George

 

George -you are definitely barking up the wrong tree with that idea!  You can scrap it immediately! 

[George Millar]

Mark,

I'll give that one a miss then.

George

[stiletto_33853]

George,

This was a nasty area of operations with the 14th Div on the far left of the British line. The only other thing I can find is from the Corps diary where I was hoping to find a more detailed map.

 

Andy

Edited 17 July , 2018 by stiletto_33853

[stiletto_33853]

This might be a little more useful showing the F & S numbers listed in the 9th RB Diary

Edited 17 July , 2018 by stiletto_33853

[George Millar]

Hi Andy,

Thanks again for the new info.  What gets me is that he was just gone 16 years of age and just over 5 feet tall when he enlisted, how he was accepted is anyone's guess.  He arrived in Belgium on the 6th October 1915 and within 2 months he was dead aged just 17 years.  What a waste.

 

His brother William Robert was a pre war soldier, he is listed as a gunner in the 41st Battery Royal Field Artillery in the 1911 census.  However I still haven't been able to find details of his service in the Great War but I'll continue looking. 

 

To Chris and Andy, once again many thanks

 

George

[johnboy]

Many men enlisted underage.some to get away from home or a dreary job/ he could have been 'keeping'up with his brother.As far as I am aware Recruiting offices just took the recruits word, no proof of age required.

[stiletto_33853]

George,

I have close on 400 underage soldiers just in the Rifle Brigade on my hard drives, quite a few did make it overseas, some wounded, Killed etc until they were found out. In the Rifle Brigade battalions of the 14th Division you will see that the Diary notes that during a parade several soldiers were found to be underage and sent back to an Infantry Base to be sent home.

Some of these underage soldiers seem to have been very determined to serve, I have come across some that were kicked out as underage and just went to another Regiment going through the same process again. 4 Regiments is the most I have come across. Some even seem to have enjoyed the fleshpots of the area they were based in and caught a nasty dose of something.

Others underage in the 9th

Avis, S/4882, to IBD 28/10/15

Davies, S/12999, Wounded twice 25/9/15 Shrapnel wound to arm, shoulder & throat, 17/10/15 GSW to Arm, to UK 18/10/15

Ellery, S/9038 to IBD 24/11/15

Green, S/6577 discharged before getting overseas

Mobbs, S/12670, to IBD 10/12/15

Mundy, S/13396 to IBD 10/2/16

Page, S/13357 to IBD 10/2/16

Patten,  S/9016 to IBD 28/10/15

Plummer, S/8974 to IBD 18/10/15

Stevenson, B/2332 to IBD 14/9/15

Tomlins, S/8161 to IBD 21/1/16

One even served the whole war in the 8th, 9th & 4th battalions.

 

Andy

Edited 17 July , 2018 by stiletto_33853

[George Millar]

Hi Johnboy and Andy,

Sorry for the delay in replying to your messages, I had to take the better half shopping this morning.

 

Johnboy, perhaps you are correct in that Edward Arthur was trying to follow in his brothers footsteps by joining the Army, we'll never know for sure.

 

Andy, as you have said in your mail, there were a lot of underage soldiers who were able to join up and some probably regretted their decision after a short while. From my own experience, my grandfather joined up at 15 years old into the 1st Batt Royal Irish Fusiliers in February 1904 but he was caught out and later discharged in June 1904  under 1805 (vi) (i) KR as a “consequence of having made a mis-statement as to age on enlistment”.   However, undeterred he decided in December 1904 to enlist into the 4th Batt Royal Irish Rifles after just turning 16 years and he was excepted although his Service papers were altered as regards his age.  He was discharged in December 1910 on completion of his termination of engagement.  On the outbreak of the First World War he was called up from the reserve on the 4th September 1914 and joined the 6th Batt Royal Irish Fusiliers. He would go on to serve in Gallipoli, then the Balkan theatre where he was killed on the 4th September 1917 whilst serving with the 8th batt Dike of Cornwall's Light Infantry.

 

I have another question regarding Edward Arthur Coleman, I have his BW & Victory medals but not his death plaque.  His name on the medals are listed "Colman" as per his MIC but I was wondering if his death plaque would have his correct name "Coleman" as per the CWGC and Soldiers died in the Great War?  What do you think?

 

George

 

[stiletto_33853]

George, I suspect that will be as per the medals, as in Colman despite his record stating Coleman for his medals and the letter enclosing his Scroll and Plaque. His MIC, and medal roll entries all state Colman and yet his record says Coleman. Another mistake from records made after the war.

 

Andy

[George Millar]

Andy,

Sorry for the delay in replying.  Thanks for the info once again, I'll keep an eye out for his Memorial Plaque.  I suspected that might be the case but I wanted someone else's opinion.

Thanks once again

George