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Errol Martyn

Richthoften's wrecked fatal Triplane photo

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Errol Martyn

This photo appears in the Cross & Cockade Great Britain Journal Vol 6, No 3, 1975, p 116. On contacting the Imperial War Museum they advised me that their reference Neg E2044 actually relates to a Second World War photo. They appear to have no knowledge of this Richthofen photo at all. Does anyone know of its true origin or where a copy might be sourced from. Given that 3 Sqn AFC personnel are present, it may appear in an Australian archive somewhere?

 

Cheers,

Errol

 

PS: An afterthought - IWM should perhaps have read AWM (Australian War Museum)?

 

image.png.cbb4ddd362a053e704ead10d962465c4.png

Edited by Errol Martyn

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Maureene

The photograph appears in "Who Killed the Red Baron?"  by Amanda Rebbeck 06 February 2008 AWM website, and has a small AWM watermark and E02044, which is from the AWM collection.

https://www.awm.gov.au/articles/blog/who-killed-the-red-baron-2

https://www.awm.gov.au/collection/C46068 Accession Number E02044 "The remains of Baron von Richthofen's Fokker Triplane at the aerodrome of No. 3 Squadron of the ..." This item is in the Public Domain

 

Cheers

Maureen  

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alex revell

Errol, This is a well known photograph, of course, but I've never before seen this version of it with the caption naming the people. However, I can't see Beauchamp -Proctor there. Cropped print?

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Errol Martyn

Many thanks Maureene, much appreciated.

Cheers,

Errol

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nils d
On ‎17‎/‎07‎/‎2018 at 09:05, alex revell said:

Errol, This is a well known photograph, of course, but I've never before seen this version of it with the caption naming the people. However, I can't see Beauchamp -Proctor there. Cropped print?

Come on Alex hes not THAT small!

Actually " Proccy" is on the far right , just as the photo bends down into the gutter,if you pardon the use of such a term for  such an esteemed journal.

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alex revell

Nils D

Maybe, but I don't see how anybody could identify it as B-P from that print.

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Stoppage Drill

The man named as B-P appears to be sporting a medal ribbon, probably MC.

Prockie didn’t have any gongs in April.

His MC came along in June.

So for this reason probably not B-P ?

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alex revell

Stoppage Drill,

Perhaps. Well spotted.

Alex

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Stoppage Drill

On the other hand, it does look a bit like B-P. Small of stature, prominent ears . . .

 

And his 84 Sqn shared Bertangles aerodrome with 3 Sqn Aus Flying Corps.

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Robert Rytir

Hi all 

as I have 2 of the chaps in this photo medals and items ( ** )  the names are in correct in the photo from the IWM . Have included a better photo and the names in correct order.

 

Cheers Rob

 

 

 

 

The remains of Baron von Richthofen's Fokker Triplane at the aerodrome of No. 3 Squadron of the Australian Flying Corps. The famous German airman was shot down and crashed in Australian lines while flying a Triplane very near the ground on the tail of a British scout. Only one bullet - believed to be from a Lewis gun attached to a Battery of Australian Field Artillery - was found in his body, and that through the heart. It was a dramatic event. Note white fabric on rudder. See also K48-K50 (Imperial War Museum). Left to right: Lieutenant (Lt) C. W. Gray, observer; Lt F. J. Mart, observer; Lt N. Mulroney, pilot; ** Lt O. G. Witcomb, observer; Lt T. L. Baillieu, pilot (later awarded DFC); Lt R. W. Kirkwood, observer;** Lt A. L. D. Taylor, observer (Killed in action 20 May 1918); Private L. H. Reid, storeman (behind); Lt M. Sheehan, pilot.

 

 

Oscar back ground Richthovens plane.JPG

Edited by Robert Rytir

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Robert Rytir

Added ** 

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Dolphin
7 hours ago, Robert Rytir said:

Hi all 

as I have 2 of the chaps in this photo medals and items ( ** )  the names are in correct in the photo from the IWM . Have included a better photo and the names in correct order.

 

Cheers Rob

 

 

 

 

The remains of Baron von Richthofen's Fokker Triplane at the aerodrome of No. 3 Squadron of the Australian Flying Corps. The famous German airman was shot down and crashed in Australian lines while flying a Triplane very near the ground on the tail of a British scout. Only one bullet - believed to be from a Lewis gun attached to a Battery of Australian Field Artillery - was found in his body, and that through the heart. It was a dramatic event. Note white fabric on rudder. See also K48-K50 (Imperial War Museum). Left to right: Lieutenant (Lt) C. W. Gray, observer; Lt F. J. Mart, observer; Lt N. Mulroney, pilot; ** Lt O. G. Witcomb, observer; Lt T. L. Baillieu, pilot (later awarded DFC); Lt R. W. Kirkwood, observer;** Lt A. L. D. Taylor, observer (Killed in action 20 May 1918); Private L. H. Reid, storeman (behind); Lt M. Sheehan, pilot.

 

 

 

Unfortunately the identification stops at Lt Malcolm Sheehan, so we don;'t have the name of the sentry, nor of the three men further to the right, one of whom might be Beauchamp Proctor.

 

Gareth

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nils d

The ears are a good point when trying to ID a person.

Proccy had served in German East Africa in 1915 so could have a ribbon from that campaign ?

No 84 Sqn were based at Bertangles so the chances of it being him are good.

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Errol Martyn

Rob,

 

I note that the caption in the IWM (sic - now known to be AWM) photo in post #1 records the fourth man from the left as Barrow, whereas in post #10 you record the same man as Witcomb. Can you please provide specific evidence that confirms which is the correct name? Barrow was a New Zealander, hence my interest.

 

Errol

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Robert Rytir

Errol I have photos and original docs plus his medals hence I know for a fact that the fellow is Witcomb  

 

Rob

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Errol Martyn
9 hours ago, Robert Rytir said:

Errol I have photos and original docs plus his medals hence I know for a fact that the fellow is Witcomb  

 

Rob

 

Thanks Rob. A bit confusing, though, as you had placed your asterisks before his name rather than, as is customary, after.

 

Would be nice for us all to see your photo of Witcomb and confirmation that it is indeed of him.

 

Errol

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Robert Rytir

Sorry about that chief . And have attached photos of him as requested . He is in the middle and the other chap on the left is in the other photo on his left.

Oscar middle with Barons Guns.JPG

Oscar back ground Richthovens plane.JPG

Untitled-Scanned-04.jpg

Edited by Robert Rytir

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Errol Martyn

Rob,

 

" He is in the middle and the other chap on the left is in the other photo on his left."

 

I think you meant to say " He is in the middle and the other chap on the left is in the other photo on his right". Be that as it may I am not yet fully convinced that 'Barrow' is in fact Witcomb.

 

Errol

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Robert Rytir

That's ok mate but I can say 100% Witcomb is in that photo of the 3 chaps looking at the gun (middle) and in the group photo Lt N. Mulroney is on his left and Witcomb is next to him .

 

Cheers Rob

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Borden Battery

Here are the first three in a series of twelve time-lapse videos of the assembly of Great War aircraft.  The top example of the Red Baron's Fokker Dr. I is a museum quality piece and the YouTube video provides a very clear understanding of the design and features of this aircraft.  Tom Grigat is a master builder.  Borden Battery

 

·         Tom Grigat - Red Baron's famous triplane "Fokker Dr. I": 750 pieces in motion

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sXnSrO2nkBw

 

·         Tom Grigat Wingnut Wings Fokker D.VII-early, 1/32, Stopmotion

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8wxBhMJA7tY

 

·         Tom Grigat – Wingnut Wings Salmson 2-A2, 1/32, Stopmotion

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pRh3P-QOLT0

 

 

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David Filsell

Wow!

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