Errol Martyn Posted 17 July , 2018 Share Posted 17 July , 2018 (edited) This photo appears in the Cross & Cockade Great Britain Journal Vol 6, No 3, 1975, p 116. On contacting the Imperial War Museum they advised me that their reference Neg E2044 actually relates to a Second World War photo. They appear to have no knowledge of this Richthofen photo at all. Does anyone know of its true origin or where a copy might be sourced from. Given that 3 Sqn AFC personnel are present, it may appear in an Australian archive somewhere? Cheers, Errol PS: An afterthought - IWM should perhaps have read AWM (Australian War Museum)? Edited 17 July , 2018 by Errol Martyn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaureenE Posted 17 July , 2018 Share Posted 17 July , 2018 The photograph appears in "Who Killed the Red Baron?" by Amanda Rebbeck 06 February 2008 AWM website, and has a small AWM watermark and E02044, which is from the AWM collection. https://www.awm.gov.au/articles/blog/who-killed-the-red-baron-2 https://www.awm.gov.au/collection/C46068 Accession Number E02044 "The remains of Baron von Richthofen's Fokker Triplane at the aerodrome of No. 3 Squadron of the ..." This item is in the Public Domain Cheers Maureen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alex revell Posted 17 July , 2018 Share Posted 17 July , 2018 Errol, This is a well known photograph, of course, but I've never before seen this version of it with the caption naming the people. However, I can't see Beauchamp -Proctor there. Cropped print? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Errol Martyn Posted 17 July , 2018 Author Share Posted 17 July , 2018 Many thanks Maureene, much appreciated. Cheers, Errol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nils d Posted 20 July , 2018 Share Posted 20 July , 2018 On 17/07/2018 at 09:05, alex revell said: Errol, This is a well known photograph, of course, but I've never before seen this version of it with the caption naming the people. However, I can't see Beauchamp -Proctor there. Cropped print? Come on Alex hes not THAT small! Actually " Proccy" is on the far right , just as the photo bends down into the gutter,if you pardon the use of such a term for such an esteemed journal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alex revell Posted 23 July , 2018 Share Posted 23 July , 2018 Nils D Maybe, but I don't see how anybody could identify it as B-P from that print. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stoppage Drill Posted 23 July , 2018 Share Posted 23 July , 2018 The man named as B-P appears to be sporting a medal ribbon, probably MC. Prockie didn’t have any gongs in April. His MC came along in June. So for this reason probably not B-P ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alex revell Posted 23 July , 2018 Share Posted 23 July , 2018 Stoppage Drill, Perhaps. Well spotted. Alex Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stoppage Drill Posted 23 July , 2018 Share Posted 23 July , 2018 On the other hand, it does look a bit like B-P. Small of stature, prominent ears . . . And his 84 Sqn shared Bertangles aerodrome with 3 Sqn Aus Flying Corps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Rytir Posted 25 July , 2018 Share Posted 25 July , 2018 (edited) Hi all as I have 2 of the chaps in this photo medals and items ( ** ) the names are in correct in the photo from the IWM . Have included a better photo and the names in correct order. Cheers Rob The remains of Baron von Richthofen's Fokker Triplane at the aerodrome of No. 3 Squadron of the Australian Flying Corps. The famous German airman was shot down and crashed in Australian lines while flying a Triplane very near the ground on the tail of a British scout. Only one bullet - believed to be from a Lewis gun attached to a Battery of Australian Field Artillery - was found in his body, and that through the heart. It was a dramatic event. Note white fabric on rudder. See also K48-K50 (Imperial War Museum). Left to right: Lieutenant (Lt) C. W. Gray, observer; Lt F. J. Mart, observer; Lt N. Mulroney, pilot; ** Lt O. G. Witcomb, observer; Lt T. L. Baillieu, pilot (later awarded DFC); Lt R. W. Kirkwood, observer;** Lt A. L. D. Taylor, observer (Killed in action 20 May 1918); Private L. H. Reid, storeman (behind); Lt M. Sheehan, pilot. Edited 25 July , 2018 by Robert Rytir Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Rytir Posted 25 July , 2018 Share Posted 25 July , 2018 Added ** Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dolphin Posted 25 July , 2018 Share Posted 25 July , 2018 7 hours ago, Robert Rytir said: Hi all as I have 2 of the chaps in this photo medals and items ( ** ) the names are in correct in the photo from the IWM . Have included a better photo and the names in correct order. Cheers Rob The remains of Baron von Richthofen's Fokker Triplane at the aerodrome of No. 3 Squadron of the Australian Flying Corps. The famous German airman was shot down and crashed in Australian lines while flying a Triplane very near the ground on the tail of a British scout. Only one bullet - believed to be from a Lewis gun attached to a Battery of Australian Field Artillery - was found in his body, and that through the heart. It was a dramatic event. Note white fabric on rudder. See also K48-K50 (Imperial War Museum). Left to right: Lieutenant (Lt) C. W. Gray, observer; Lt F. J. Mart, observer; Lt N. Mulroney, pilot; ** Lt O. G. Witcomb, observer; Lt T. L. Baillieu, pilot (later awarded DFC); Lt R. W. Kirkwood, observer;** Lt A. L. D. Taylor, observer (Killed in action 20 May 1918); Private L. H. Reid, storeman (behind); Lt M. Sheehan, pilot. Unfortunately the identification stops at Lt Malcolm Sheehan, so we don;'t have the name of the sentry, nor of the three men further to the right, one of whom might be Beauchamp Proctor. Gareth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nils d Posted 27 July , 2018 Share Posted 27 July , 2018 The ears are a good point when trying to ID a person. Proccy had served in German East Africa in 1915 so could have a ribbon from that campaign ? No 84 Sqn were based at Bertangles so the chances of it being him are good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Errol Martyn Posted 28 July , 2018 Author Share Posted 28 July , 2018 Rob, I note that the caption in the IWM (sic - now known to be AWM) photo in post #1 records the fourth man from the left as Barrow, whereas in post #10 you record the same man as Witcomb. Can you please provide specific evidence that confirms which is the correct name? Barrow was a New Zealander, hence my interest. Errol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Rytir Posted 28 July , 2018 Share Posted 28 July , 2018 Errol I have photos and original docs plus his medals hence I know for a fact that the fellow is Witcomb Rob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Errol Martyn Posted 28 July , 2018 Author Share Posted 28 July , 2018 9 hours ago, Robert Rytir said: Errol I have photos and original docs plus his medals hence I know for a fact that the fellow is Witcomb Rob Thanks Rob. A bit confusing, though, as you had placed your asterisks before his name rather than, as is customary, after. Would be nice for us all to see your photo of Witcomb and confirmation that it is indeed of him. Errol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Rytir Posted 28 July , 2018 Share Posted 28 July , 2018 (edited) Sorry about that chief . And have attached photos of him as requested . He is in the middle and the other chap on the left is in the other photo on his left. Edited 28 July , 2018 by Robert Rytir Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Errol Martyn Posted 30 July , 2018 Author Share Posted 30 July , 2018 Rob, " He is in the middle and the other chap on the left is in the other photo on his left." I think you meant to say " He is in the middle and the other chap on the left is in the other photo on his right". Be that as it may I am not yet fully convinced that 'Barrow' is in fact Witcomb. Errol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Rytir Posted 30 July , 2018 Share Posted 30 July , 2018 That's ok mate but I can say 100% Witcomb is in that photo of the 3 chaps looking at the gun (middle) and in the group photo Lt N. Mulroney is on his left and Witcomb is next to him . Cheers Rob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Borden Battery Posted 30 January , 2019 Share Posted 30 January , 2019 Here are the first three in a series of twelve time-lapse videos of the assembly of Great War aircraft. The top example of the Red Baron's Fokker Dr. I is a museum quality piece and the YouTube video provides a very clear understanding of the design and features of this aircraft. Tom Grigat is a master builder. Borden Battery · Tom Grigat - Red Baron's famous triplane "Fokker Dr. I": 750 pieces in motion https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sXnSrO2nkBw · Tom Grigat – Wingnut Wings Fokker D.VII-early, 1/32, Stopmotion https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8wxBhMJA7tY · Tom Grigat – Wingnut Wings Salmson 2-A2, 1/32, Stopmotion https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pRh3P-QOLT0 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Filsell Posted 31 January , 2019 Share Posted 31 January , 2019 Wow! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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