Guest smaddern Posted 27 May , 2003 Share Posted 27 May , 2003 Hello. Please excuse me if I am asking a stupid question, are am in the wrong place. I am trying to find out information on 39079 Bomadier (Cpl) John Edwards (R.F.A.) who won the MM on 14th October 1917 (for what I do not know). I have the Gazette edition for 4th February 1918, but I don't know where else to look now for further information. Thank you in anticipation. Steve Maddern smadern@hotmail.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John_Hartley Posted 27 May , 2003 Share Posted 27 May , 2003 Steve I'm not sure about RFA - but does the Gazette list which Brigade your man served with. If so, -you might find a mention in the War Diary which is available at the Public record Office (now the National Archives). You could always try the Artillery museum "Firepower" at Woolwich Arsenal. However, it's odds on that you'll not find what he did to win the medal - there were so many issued and, if I can use such a term, they were for the lowest level of bravery that it wasnt usually fel;t necessary to describe it. If you can find out where he came from,a search of the local newspapers of the time might be a possibility (it's the only way I've found anything on my MM winners). John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Staffsyeoman Posted 27 May , 2003 Share Posted 27 May , 2003 Steve, Sadly, the chances of finding exactly what the MM was for are remote. No recommendation material for the MM survives centrally; the only hopes are: 1. Some collateral in his service record - meaning that his record firstly has to have survived, and secondly that there is anything relating to the decoration in it. (All too often, I find material such as the official receipt for the MM but nothing else). 2. A reference in the Battery war diary; again, slim but a possibility. 3. References in local newspapers - if you know where he was from. Sorry to pour cold water, but that's the state of it, sadly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris_Baker Posted 27 May , 2003 Share Posted 27 May , 2003 Steve Go to www.1914-1918.net Click on Grandad's war It will give you some ideas about next steps to take Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ianw Posted 28 May , 2003 Share Posted 28 May , 2003 McCarthy shows 14.10.17 as a very uneventful day. Only activity was enemy capturing a post on the 37th Division front - 110,111 and 112th Brigades. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil Mackenzie Posted 28 May , 2003 Share Posted 28 May , 2003 The accounts of the war are, for obvious reasons, written from the point of view of the front line infantry and for them 14/10/17 was a relatively quiet day at Ypres. My great uncle, an artilleryman but in the AIF, was also killed on that day so it was probably not so quiet for the artillery boys. Neil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ianw Posted 28 May , 2003 Share Posted 28 May , 2003 Neil, As you say no quiet days in this war for gunners or infantry. SDiGW shows 500 men and 60 officers died on that day (round figures) and I would estimate aroung 12% were in the artillery . Plus , of course, numbers of Australians and Canadians. God bless them all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AOK4 Posted 29 May , 2003 Share Posted 29 May , 2003 The British never succeeded in silencing the German artillery during 3rd Ypres (also because of the weather and ground conditions), the German artillery tried shelling the British artillery continuously in order to relieve the pressure on their front-line troops. A lot of gas shells were fired on the British artillery positions, hampering their movements and rate of fire. The losses for the British artillery were very heavy during the battle because of this. Jan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest smaddern Posted 1 June , 2003 Share Posted 1 June , 2003 Thanks to all your replies so far... they have very interesteing and useful. I've since dicovered that the person I am looking for was part of thr 46th Divisional Artilerry, in either the 230th or 231st Brigade RFA (I have found an orders paper for August 30th- September 1st 1917 amongst John Edwards' papers). Can anyone enlighten me if this sound correct, as I am not familiar with the structure of Brigades etc. Thanks once again. Steve Maddern Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris_Baker Posted 2 June , 2003 Share Posted 2 June , 2003 Well that narrows it down nicely, and the answer may surprise you a bit. 46th Division was not involved in the Passchendaele offensive at all. They were much further south, in the area near Lens where the Battle of Loos had been fought two years earlier. The Division was - unjustifiably in my view - not held in high regard by the top brass. They had "failed" in their two major attacks since coming to France (Hohenzollern Redoubt on 13th October 1915, and Gommecourt on 1st July 1916) and were not used for serious offensive action again until late 1918! It held the Loos sector for a long time from mid summer 1916 to January 1918. It should now be possible to look up the war diaries of the two Brigades, to see if there is any mention of John or even to see if there is an incident that may have led to his MM. By the way "McCarthy" is Chris McCarthy, who published "Passcehndalele the day by day account" a few years ago. It's a sort of coffee table summarised version of the official history. Very useful for plotting the comings and goings of Divisions at Passcehndaele. But no mention of 46th Division, for obvious reasons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
armourersergeant Posted 2 June , 2003 Share Posted 2 June , 2003 Just for reference for you if you are interested. To reinforce Chris and his comments about the 46th Division, it was part of 7th corps attack on Gommecourt on the 1st july 1916 under the corps commander General Snow. The complete attack was a diversion and almost anything was done in the days leading upto the attack to alert the Germans that they were coming. When the attacks failed(hardly surprising) both divisions were ordered back in again and were half heartedly reassembled by the division and brigade commanders as they felt it was a needless waste of men and time. 46th commander Major-General The Honourable E J Montagu-Stuart-Wortley, who had temporarly commanded the corps in the run up to the attack as Snow, (and thus was fully aware of the corps role,) was on leave became the only general to be sent home as a direct result of the first day of the somme. His men long after never knew they had been a diversion and believed he had been relieved of command because he had lost too many men, not that he had not been ruthless enough. It would appear that during an inquiry into the battle Allenby 3rd Army commnader suddenly ordered him home before the inquiry could be concluded. I have yet to establish if it was Allenby or Snow that ordered the second assault. I have just skim read a book from the battleground Europe collection called 'Gommecourt' and found it a fascinating small read, it covers some of the actions of the 46th div in this somme battle. Hope this was of interest. Arm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul guthrie Posted 2 June , 2003 Share Posted 2 June , 2003 Well 46th was good enough to capture the bridge on the Hindenburg Line near Riqueval Spetember, 1918. US 27 and 30 were right there, they served with British their entire time, actually with Australians there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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