No. 7 Clearing Hospital Poperinghe ?

[dickiek]

Does anyone have any information about early Clearing hospitals in or around Poperinghe for November 1914.

 

I have a family member who died of wounds when serving with the 1st Bedfordshire Reg on the 14th November 1914. He is recorded as DoW at No. 7 Clearing Hospital Poperinghe. .

Somehow, his body was lost / missing and is now remembered on the Menin Gate .

 

Any help would be much appreciated. .

[JeremyGS]

I'm thinking that 'clearing hospital' should read casualty clearing station? CCS info here: http://www.longlongtrail.co.uk/army/regiments-and-corps/locations-of-british-casualty-clearing-stations/. No. 4 was in Poperinghe in 1914, No.7 in Merville. 

[Guest]

  The Bedfords suffered heavily in the retreats of 1914- one of my local casualties has no known grave as the fallen Bedfords were oft time buried by the Germans. But Ypres held intact.  It may be possible still to work out where this man was PROBABLY buried.  If it is 7CCS, then it would have had a burial plot next to it- realities of war, I'm afraid. But if lost, then it's general location may still be known and quite likely that your man will be an "unknown"  in a cemetery nearby. Alas, Ypres was very heavily shelled during the war and lost graves are quite common-Again, I have one casualty whose original burial location -as with others of his regiment (Durham Light Infantry) is relatively easy to locate but pounded to oblivion in subsequent years.

     Many men were,effectively,already dead when they got to a CCS and the term DOW can be quite wide.  There was one officer killed the day before and I will look up his file at Kew to see if it gives any clue to where Bedfords may have been buried. Occasionally, an officer file at Kew throws up the original burial location, when nowadays CWGC records only have a man on one of the general memorials.

    In addition, battalions in the line in and around Ypres especially  after the retreat were in fairly static lines until at least the middle of 1915-thus, the War Diary should tell you where the battalion HQ was-there would normally be a regimental "soldier's plot" next to it.

Edited 16 July , 2018 by Guest

[clk]

Hi dickiek,

 

1 hour ago, JeremyGS said:

I'm thinking that 'clearing hospital' should read casualty clearing station? CCS info here: http://www.longlongtrail.co.uk/army/regiments-and-corps/locations-of-british-casualty-clearing-stations/. No. 4 was in Poperinghe in 1914, No.7 in Merville. 

 

I seem to recall reading in another thread, that the info about unit location on the LLT is based on some (post war) report in which there are known to be some inaccuracies. Might this be one? The war diary for 7 CCS is very unlikely to mention George by name, but it should establish if it was in/near Poperinghe. The diary is available for download from the National Archives - link.

 

I wondered if he might have been buried in Poperinghe Old Military Cemetery, but his grave lost/destroyed. The historic blurb on the CWGC site says:

 

"The town of Poperinghe (now Poperinge) was of great importance during the First World War because, although occasionally bombed or bombarded at long range, it was the nearest place to Ypres (now Ieper) which was both considerable in size and reasonably safe. It was at first a centre for Casualty Clearing Stations, but by 1916 it became necessary to move these units further back and field ambulances took their places. The earliest Commonwealth graves in the town are in the communal cemetery, which was used from October 1914 to March 1915. The Old Military Cemetery was made in the course of the First Battle of Ypres and was closed, so far as Commonwealth burials are concerned, at the beginning of May 1915. The New Military Cemetery was established in June 1915. The Old Military Cemetery contains 450 Commonwealth burials and commemorations of the First World War. 24 of the burials are unidentified but there are special memorials to seven casualties known or believed to be buried among them...".

 

On a tangent, Findmypast have a transcribed record for George which indicates that he was recalled reservist. It reads:

 

First name(s): George E

Last name: Eldred

Death date:14th November 1914

Occupation: Porter

Railway company: Great Eastern Railway

Railway department: Bishop's Stortford

Service number: 8670

Rank: Private

Unit:1st Battalion

Regiment: Bedfordshire Regiment

Memorial: Ypres (Menin Gate) Memorial

Notes~: Age 25, joined Great Eastern Railway January 1913, died of wounds

Photo: Yes

Information source: St Paul's Cathedral Order of Service 1919

Magazine reference: Great Eastern Railway staff magazine: 1915/Feb/Supplement No 1

Archive: National Railway Museum

Record set: British Army, Railwaymen Died In The Great War

 

Regards

Chris

 

 

 

[Guest]

  If you would like the GER Magazine pic., then it can be scanned and zapped over, if you do not have access to FMP. That way, it breaks no FMP rules-My local library holds a set

[TEW]

Casualty Clearing Stations were originally called Casualty Clearing Hospitals or just Clearing Hospitals. The 'Hospital' part was dropped in early 1915 due to the UK general public believing that these were fully equipped hospitals well away from the front line.

 

I wouldn't be surprised if parents, spouses etc were writing in trying to get to see their injured soldier recovering in a nice, comfy & safe hospital environment and the realities including adjoining cemeteries, proximity to fighting etc would be too much to witness.

 

What CLK says about the locations of CCS and inaccuracies is quite true but I should have 7 CCS at home so can check the location and any other details.

TEW

[TEW]

Simple answer is that a detachment from 7CCH did set up in Pop for 11 days including 14/11/14. This would be in the town so cemetery used unknown as yet. A few more leads to follow up on which might get a better location. Some 1250 men received over the 11 days.

TEW

[clk]

Hi,

 

I don't think that it really helps, but looking at the Soldiers' Effects records for men who died on 14th November 1914

 

5035 Buckley (10th Hussars) died 7 Clearing Hospital, Poperinghe. No known grave. Commemorated Menin Gate. No service file.

8395 Winstone (1/Royal Berks) died 4 Clearing Hospital, Poperinghe. Buried Poperinghe Old Military Cemetery. No service file.

 

I guess that raises the question of whether 4 CCS and 7 CCS were close together, and used the same burial ground. 

 

Regards

Chris

[TEW]

Think I saw a specific location in I Corps DDMS diary for 4 CH. 7 CH detachment were in a school building in Pop.

TEW

[clk]

Hi Guest,

 

 

Having spent a bit of time on this chap, if it's not too much trouble I would love to see a picture of him. The FMP record is just a transcript, and doesn't have the photo.

 

Regards

Chris

[Guest]

 

      Certainly-try to get it done by the end of the week-  Enlargeable PDF.  Unless I am beaten to it by another GWF member- the staff magazine was done on CD-Rom a while back as well.

[clk]

Thank you very much. No hurry though - just interested.

 

Regards

Chris

[TEW]

Brief early history of 7 CH.

 

Arrived France 1/11/1914.

 

6/11/1914.Main body at Blendeques, infectious centre awaiting orders.

Orders received to send detachment of 3 Officers, 20 Men & 100 Stretchers to Pop. Left 4.30 PM

 

11/11/1914. Main body partially opened at Blendeques, Public Elementary School behine Mairie, 50 Beds.

 

12/11/1914.Ordered to send 2 Officers, 10 Men & 50 Stretchers to POP to help detachment there.

 

14/11/1914. I was instructed to proceed to Pop to inspect detachement working there. About 350 cases through per day. Accomodation in a school building. Water supply is limited, sitting up cases crowded into a dark loft. The serious cases retained on the ground floor. The operating room is unsatisfactory and partly serves as a ward. Far too many cases being sent into this building. The staff of 43 being inadequate to cope with the work.

 

18/11/1914. Detachement at Pop ordered to return to Blendeques. Lorries sent to collect them 5.30am

 

19/11/1914. 1226 cases seen at Pop in the eleven days many of them very severe cases.

 

20/11/1914. 2 Officers, 22 Men sent to Lillers.

 

21/11/1914 Remainder of unit sent to Merville, in Jesuit College.

 

DDMS of I Corps states 14/11/14.
Inspected Clearing Hospital (temporary) of Sec B 19 FA (Meerut Div.?) & detachment of 7 Clearing Hospital.

 

Conditions not sounding good in the temporary CH, probably contributed to higher death rate.

 

The DDMS's statement is a bit odd in that I've just checked 19 FA diary and Meerut ADMS and can't place 19 FA in Pop. It does state British 19 FA who were with Meerut Division. Had hoped one of the diaries would give a better location.

 

I wonder if widening the search of dead to include those of 5th Division would help.

 

Incidently, the arrangements of 7 CH had not improved much by Jan 1915;

 

TEW