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The Great War (1914-1918) Forum

My Sunday night puzzle - Williams/Flook!


Bardess

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All I have to go on is MIC/14 Star Roll/SER/SDGW which tells me that Thomas was born in Cardiff, died in Cork and he had a sister, Sarah Mansell. On searching the 1911 Census I found Sarah in Smethwick [good start] and some kind [or sadistic] soul had put Flook as a tag on the entry. Using Flook I found Sarah and Thomas J[ohn] in the 1891 Census, living in Agate St, Cardiff. I haven't found Thomas in 1901 or 1911 Census or even his birth.

 

There is an entry for Thomas Williams in 1st Q 1915 aged 32 in Cork Vol 5 Page 66 and I wonder if this is him? I would be grateful for any assistance. Thanks

 

 

 

 

CWGC.jpg

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Graves Registration Report form.JPG

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#6417 was allocated between July 1901 and January 1902 if he was a regular soldier - that would make him having enlisted at 18 in that case based on the death cert.

 

I think you are correct that the death record is for Thomas Williams https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/details-civil/a54b3b5434576?b=https%3A%2F%2Fcivilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie%2Fchurchrecords%2Fcivil-perform-search.jsp%3Fnamefm%3Dthomas%26namel%3Dwilliams%26location%3DCork%26yyfrom%3D1914%26yyto%3D1916%26type%3DD%26submit%3DSearch

 

image.png.77b8f94e7a8aff50ee8e10d074da6c75.png

 

Craig

Edited by ss002d6252
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I think the key would be connecting Williams via his Effects record to Sarah Flook via Sarah Mansell-  I can't at the moment see a marriage between a Sarah Flook and a Mansell in the right range.

 

The only marriage I can see for a Sarah Flook to a Mansell is to Noah Mansell at King's Northon in June 1904 quarter.

 

Craig

Edited by ss002d6252
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15 minutes ago, ss002d6252 said:

I can't at the moment see a marriage between a Sarah Flook and a Sarah Mansell.

 

They were different times, Craig.

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Find my Past

No 2 General Hospital on 28/10/1914 William Thomas was being treated for Paralysis of his right arm. Aged 32 he had served 14 years.

 

Bob

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Woop woop!!!!! Thanks so much Craig. And, yes, her husband is Noah. Wonderful

1 minute ago, little bob said:

No 2 General Hospital on 28/10/1914 William Thomas was being treated for Paralysis of his right arm. Aged 32 he had served 14 years.

 

Posted at the same time ^_^

I wonder if this was due to serving? Where was No 2 GH? Thanks Bob

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This may be him;

 

25th August 1894 - Cardiff Times

 

Six very respectable-looking lads. named Thomas Griffiths (9), Henry Edwards (11) John Eveleigh (13), Thomas J. Flook (11), Robert Evans (12). and William Evans (8), were each charged with stealing a quantity of swede turnips valued at 6d from a field near Pengam Farm, the property of Thomas Williams, on August 20th. A further portion of the summons charged the boys with doing damage to the crops to the extent of 10s. It seems that the children went into the field and and pulled the turnips out of pure mischievous- ness, as they did not attempt to carry any number away. Mr Morton Brown severely reprimanded the lads and sent them home. 

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On the 1911 census of England and Wales Sarah Mansell was aged 30, born either Routh or Roath, Glamorganshire. She had been married 7 years.

 

On the 1881 census the 6 month old Sarah Flook, born Roath, Cardiff, was recorded living at 35 Broadway, Roath, Cardiff. The Flook family was one of the two households shown living at this address. Her parents were Thomas, (29, Labourer, born Gloucestershire), and Sarah Flook, (aged 31, born Monmouthshire). As well as Sarah their other children are William H, (7), Leah, (4) and ‘Elizth’ (2) – all born Roath.

 

The 1891 census you have already covered for location, although it’s shown as being in the Civil Parish and Municipal Ward of Roath. Parents Thomas, (39, Watchman at Oil Works, born Wapley, Gloucestershire) and Sarah, (40, now shown as born St Mellons, Glamorganshire) were still alive. Among their children were Sarah (10) and a Thomas, aged 7, who has a middle initial – probably an “L” but could be a “J”.

 

By the time of the 1901 census Sarah Flook, (20), was a domestic servant in Smethwick. Her parents were living at 12 Elm Street, Roath, Glamorganshire. Thomas, (49), is still a Watchman at an Oil & Grease Works. Sarah, (51) now gives her birthplace as Lisnane, Glamorganshire. The only other person in the household is their 6 year old daughter Violet. There is no obvious match on the censuses of England and Wales or the one for Scotland for Thomas. But if the most likely date of his enlistment is between July 1901 and January 1902 then there is a possibility that he was already in Ireland.

 

According to Hart Annual Military list, the Regimental Deport was at Birr, which is now in County Offaly in the Republic of Ireland. After his initial training he could have been shipped out to either the 1st Battalion, (in South Africa) or the 2nd Battalion, (in Barbados).

 

Given that period of joining he would have completed his 7 years in the Colours by the time of the 1911 Census if he’d signed up for one of the standard periods of enlistment. If he’d extended his commitment to the full 12 years in the Colours or even the full 21 for a pension then he was either at the Depot, (still Birr) or with the 1st Battalion (Chaubattia) or the 2nd Battalion, (Cork) – according to Hart’s 1912 edition, or travelling between them. 2nd and Depot would have been covered by the Irish census. Only the 1st would have been on the census for England and Wales (!) and I’m drawing a blank for both Flook and Williams there.

 

As to when he was born well the most likely candidate was a Thomas John “Flooks” whose birth was registered in the Cardiff District in the July to September quarter, (Q3), of 1883. That would potentially tie up with that middle initial on the 1891 census.

 

Hope that helps,

Peter

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Wow, Peter! You've rounded off this thread with an absolute blinder of a post which rather nicely confirms everything I [and others ^_^ ] have found . . . but on top of that, you've located his birth!!!!! Outstanding, Peter. Thanks so much for such an in-depth response. Much appreciated indeed

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