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Remembered Today:


"Native" Stokers lost with H.M.S. Good Hope

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21 minutes ago, KevinBattle said:

Whilst Fatal Octave remains somewhat of a mystery as possibly being mis-spelt, Octave as a St Lucia surname still exists - https://www.stlucianewsonline.com/breaking-news-two-charged-in-connection-with-tuesdays-deadly-shooting/


Throw in native patois and whoever was writing down the names wrote what he thought he heard.

If the person was illiterate, then no correction to the error would be made.

Could he be Vidal or Vital for instance?

Would the St Lucia War Memorial be more accurate?

Where did they get the Names they used that differ?


   All good questions-but most of the surnames are common across the Leewadrs and the Windwards- and the proximity of St. Lucia to Martinique provides further problems with the French names.  I have asked of the St. Lucia National Archive if they hold anything and will post it's reply, if any is received.  All suspicions by me are that there are service records somewhere in the UK for both Their Lordships and CWGC to get a grip. Thus, CWGC will be contacted the morrow. Naval records of service are generally pretty complete- so quite what has happened to the NCS records is an issue of wider interest for GWF. 

    A related problem is that of "Navy" that is not.  I have a local casualty who is known from war memorials and died at Basrah (or thereabouts). He worked on a transport. But he seems not to be recorded by CWGC.  His name was George Anton Dinn and it is known he was buried in Basrah- though it seems unlikely that this would be outside of  a British cemetery.  

     To me, there are 2 issues  that the St. Lucia men raise-

1)   The extent of  losses that are not strictly RN or MN but fall outside  those services directly. the forerunners of RNTS seem to have fallen off the record but I live in hope that there are non-standard or outlier records still out there somewhere.The St. Lucia men might be a way into it, as there is a fair bit of paper trail and clear indications about where to start looking.

2) The  extent of "Empire" contribution  may be underrepresented and the dispersed nature of records and memorials may have furthered this.

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   And a little bit more on this theme, which suggests that it may be worthwhile cracking down on any residual UK located records.  Below is the blurb from CWGC that details the rationale as to who is commemorated on the Bombay memorial


      It looks to me that the St. Lucia men are on the wrong memorial- they are in the surviving ADM records as being  "home based" at Portsmouth-most likely as Good Hope was a  Pompey ship. But these men do not fit the criteria of  CWGC for listing them on a memorial thousands of miles away from where any of them had ever been. In addition, they were NOT of "African" birth, so seem to be in the wrong place. I suggest that they might be more properly recorded on the Portsmouth memorial. Again, I will ask CWGC the morrow why they are listed at Bombay when they appear not to fit CWGCs  own criteria.



THE BOMBAY MEMORIALS. The three Memorials of the Royal Navy at Portsmouth, Plymouth and Chatham and the Memorial of the Merchant Navy at Tower Hill record the names of those European sailors who met their death in combatant service, or at the hands of the enemy, and whose graves are not known. There remain, however, the sailors of Asiatic or African birth who took the same risks and met the same fate, and for these men two other Memorials at two great Eastern ports have been erected. The names of the Chinese sailors are erected at Hong Kong; the Indian, Adenese and East African sailors are commemorated at Bombay, and with them are associated those Indian dead of the Royal Indian Marine who fell in the Great War and whose graves are in Eastern waters. The Bombay 1914-1918 Memorial commemorates more than 2,000 sailors who died in the First World War and have no other grave than the sea. A tablet erected in Bombay (St. Thomas) Cathedral records the names of Officers and Warrant Officers of the Royal Indian Marine who fell in the War, this also forms a Memorial to the five who have no known grave and whose names are given separately under the heading of the Bombay (St. Thomas) Cathedral Memorial.

Edited by voltaire60

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