Anson Battalion Royal Naval Division

[loujn]

Hi, I wondered if anyone has access to the Anson Battalion RND war diary and could do me a quick look up please?

 

I am trying to collate a list of the whereabouts at death of the 85 men named on our WW1 memorial.

 

One of the men died on 10th November 1918 whilst serving with the Anson Bat RND

 

I will download the diary from TNA later when i write up his story, but for now I wondered if anyone could have a quick look to see where the battalion was on 10th November 1918 please?

 

I have read that they were present at the passage of the Grande Honelle, final advance on Picardy..... but the dates given are for 5-7th november.

 

Thank you in advance, 

Louise

 

[horatio2]

"10 November - Battalion leave SARS-LA-BRUYERE 0700 hrs for concentration area No.1 SUNKEN ROAD, ASQUILLIES where dinner was served." They went into action at VILLERS ST GHISLAIN on their final attack on German positions the following morning.

[loujn]

50 minutes ago, horatio2 said:

"10 November - Battalion leave SARS-LA-BRUYERE 0700 hrs for concentration area No.1 SUNKEN ROAD, ASQUILLIES where dinner was served." They went into action at VILLERS ST GHISLAIN on their final attack on German positions the following morning.

 

Oh thank you very much for taking the time to find me this.  Much appreciated.  

 

It seems more tragic, so close to the Armistice! 

[Kimberley John Lindsay]

Dear Louise,

From our point of view, so close to the Armistice. To the participants, just another day of war fighting. 

Kindest regards,

Kim.

[loujn]

Just now, Kimberley John Lindsay said:

Dear Louise,

From our point of view, so close to the Armistice. To the participants, just another day of war fighting. 

Kindest regards,

Kim.

 

Yes, too true 😢

[smilingsixth]

I  am trying to research the following RND Anson Batt soldier.

Able Seaman REGINALD SAMUEL PALFERMAN

Service Number Wales Z/1278

Died 28/09/1918

Aged 21

Anson Bn. R.N. Div. 
Royal Naval Volunteer Reserve

Son of Samuel and Victoria Palferman, of 149, Manselton Rd., Swansea.

 

Would somebody who has the Battalion be able to advise me what the Anson Batt was doing and where they were on the day of his death Please.T

 

Thank you

 

Simon

 

 

[horatio2]

Anson Battalion was in action with 188 Bde RND, involved in the crossing of the Canal d'Escaut and taking the Hindenburg Line near Cambrai.

[little bob]

Poor quality photograph of Reginald  Herald of Wales  26th October 1918.

 

Bob

[michaeldr]

ADM 137/3940 - Report on Operations 27 September to 2 October 1918 can be found at Kew - 
http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C4115611

or it can be read in Len Seller's magazine RND, issue No.17, June 2001, pages 1646-1668

This report provides a good description of the action, but alas, less detail on individual battalions

 

During these days the Ansons lost

Officers Killed – 1

Other Ranks Killed – 31

Officers Wounded – 7

Other Ranks Wounded – 193

Officers Missing – 2

Other Ranks Missing - 124

 

 

 

 

[michaeldr]

Regarding the maps in the previous post

As far as I can see, the 188^th Brigade ended the 27^th September along the Graincourt – Anneau Spur

On the 28^th September they planned (c.09.00) to move forward on Graincourt and Cantaing, but as the 52^nd Division had not secured the crossing over the Canal de l'Escaut they remained along the Graincourt – Anneau Spur

At c.15.00 on the 28^th September the 189^th Brigade was ordered across the canal and the 188^th Brigade was to move (at 15.30) to where the 189^th had been (Cantaing and Cantaing Mill)

At 16.30 the 188^th Brigade HQ was established at Cantaing Mill

At 19.00 on the 28^th September, the 188^th Brigade was warned that they were to pass through the 189^th Brigade crossing to the eastern side of the canal on the morning of the 29^th September 1918

 

edit to add: worth noting that in his divisional history The Royal Naval Division, Jerrold mentions that the Canal d'Escaut, "unlike the Canal du Nord at this point, was filled"

 

 

 

Edited 12 August , 2018 by michaeldr

[GTS21]

I am looking to find out a bit more about my grandfather who served in the Anson battalion in the Dardanelles. He was wounded sometime between 5/5/15 and 10/5/15. He was  evacuated to Alexandria then to UK.

If anyone has access to the War Diary I would like to know what it has to say about where the battalion was and what it was doing around those dates.

[horatio2]

There are no war diaries for Anson Battalion at Gallipoli in May 1915, only for June to October. Nor for 2nd Bde RND. What is available at Kew (and Ancestry) is listed here:-  https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C4557444

 

A name would help but he was probably wounded in the 2nd battle of Krithia which began on 6 May 1915.

 

The RND History records: "The battle opened at 11 am, the first advance being made by the French on the right and the 29th Division on the left, and in the centre, up the Achibaba (right centre) and Krithia (left centre) nullahs, by the Composite Brigade, under General Paris's orders, and the 2nd Brigade, under the orders of General d'Amade. The 2nd Brigade was originally intended to advance merely in support of the French but, at the last minute, a change was made and on the French left the Hood and Anson Battalions (with which was one platoon of 'A' Company Howe ...) and the French infantry advanced in alternate lines. ... By 12.30 the Hood and Anson reported an advance of 600 yards and had passed the Turkish advanced trenches by the White House. ... By 3 pm the advance, which at no point had got near the Turkish main positions, seemed to be everywhere held and at 3.30 pm the Hood and Anson were definitely ordered by General d'Amade not to advance further..."

Anson Battalion lost about thirty men in this battle.

Lots online for this battle but see Wikipedia here:-  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Battle_of_Krithia

 

 

Edited 23 April , 2019 by horatio2

[GTS21]

"A name would help but he was probably wounded in the 2nd battle of Krithia which began on 6 May 1915."

 

Thomas Cutter

 

 

[horatio2]

Interesting service: pre-war RNVR >>  Northumberland Fusiliers  >> Petty oficer RNVR (RND) >> Royal Naval Air Service >> RAF. A pity Kew have his online RND and RNAS records hopelessly mixed together.

[GTS21]

Thanks for all that.

 

It gets a bit more interesting since he came to AUS in 1927 and enlisted in the CMF at the beginning of WW11. I'm waiting for his records from the national archives.

 

You say " A pity Kew have his online RND and RNAS records hopelessly mixed together.  ..." Is it possible to access the records on line and if so how so, if not I will be in London shortly, is it possible to do a walk up inquiry, if so how so.

 

Thank you.

 

 

 

[horatio2]

Here is his RND record in ADM 339 at Kew :-  https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/D7267766a    It is single unhelpful card, the actual RND record cards seeming to have been added to his ADM 188  RNAS record which is here:-  https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/D6839446

 

If you look at the online "preview an image of this record" you will see that the image of his RNAS record is overlain with his RND record card and is obscured by it. This is what you will get if you download - not very useful. I also note that his RND record makes no mention of his service at Gallipoli which makes me think a card is missing (although it may be at Kew). In short, Kew have made a real mess of scanning Thomas Cutter's RND and RNAS records online. You may do better by visiting Kew in person or by trying for the records on Ancestry or Findmypast. I do not use either company but other members may be able to advise. If they have just a repeat of Kew scans, the problem remains.

 

His later RAF service can be found on this link which directs you to Findmypast.:-  https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C12494713

 

Note his successive official numbers: RND = Kitchener Palace/974 (KP/974); RNAS = F.39523; RAF = 239523.

 

Note also that his official number for his three years prior RNVR service is not known and records have not survived. Nor do I have details of his N Fusiliers time. The records, covering his 9 days in the N Fusiliers and transfer to KP/974 (RNVR for RND) are held at the Fleet Air Arm Museum (FAAM), Regrettably and most unhelpfully their enquiry service has closed down for the next year or two.

[Marks13]

Thank you also for the information, my relative was with the Anson battalion and unfortunately was killed on the 10/11/18.

Able Seaman 

Robert Horry

R/1707

I can't imagine the upset of his wife finding out about the end of the war and then a relative has been killed so close to the end. 

[horatio2]

Anson Battalion lost fourteen men killed or d.o.w. in this the final attack made by the RND, commencing around noon 10 November and continuing over night. They pushed the front line forward to the east of HARMIGNIES - VILLERS - St. GHISLAN before the Armistice came into effect the following morning.

Edited 26 April , 2019 by horatio2

[Marks13]

On 26/04/2019 at 10:27, horatio2 said:

Anson Battalion lost fourteen men killed or d.o.w. in this the final attack made by the RND, commencing around noon 10 November and continuing over night. They pushed the front line forward to the east of HARMIGNIES - VILLERS - St. GHISLAN before the Armistice came into effect the following morning.

Thank you for the information, strange to think one of those men is a relation. I've not had chance yet but I'll be purchasing a copy of the war diaries, I'm interested in learning more about the Royal Naval division and  Anson Battalion in particular. 

[Guest]

Hello i'm helping a friend out trying to find out what happen to a relative of his on the 4th of July 1915 i have downloaded his RND 1914-15 star index i think ? it has it rubber stamped on the top , he was wounded GSW lower abdomen 4th DOW 5th he was with the  Anson Batt  RND his number and name is KP610 Peter Duffy he transferd out of the 6th N.Fus in to the RNVR on 10.9.14 

I have  had a look online and i cannot find any information  for the date tho looking at the Anson threads here looks like 9 sols were killd from the Anson batt on 4 and 5th July any help would be most appreciated thank you in advance.

 

Steve. 

[horatio2]

Temporary Lieutenant The Hon. K.R. Dundas RNVR of Anson Bn. wrote in a letter dated 5 Jul15 9am :- "We have just had a most exciting time. I was lying down at about 7am when I heard a sudden burr, & looking round saw the whole of our right bolting. Things looked pretty bad, but we charged out & reinforced the right, & drove off the Turks with heavy losses. For the time being, however, there was a bad panic, & had we not stopped the Turks few of us would be alive to tell the tale. I killed four Turks with my own fair hands & I know my men accounted for a good few." ; The Anson Battalion War Diary for 5th July 1915 states:- "All quiet till 6.30 when a bombardment of French left by Turks commenced. About 7.30am Turks attacked French left and drove them out of advanced trench. French left firing line retired hurriedly to support line and the retirement was carried on into the right of our firing line by contagion and some 2 Platoons retired into support trench over open country. They were quickly rallied and led back into the firing line and the Turks advancing opposite our lines retired. We sustained casualties - Men 8 killed. 7 wounded and 2 Officers wounded Lieutenant Paget and Sub Lieutenant Gibson." 

The 8 men killed were:- C.Z/973 T. Cuthbert, L.Z/544 S.G. Dadd, K.P/41 G.H. Davis, M.6/180 E.J. Donnelly, C.Z/673 W. Duncan, T.Z/1088 E.G. Gott, C.Z/1746 A. Sterling & S.Z/171 G.A. Wilkins. K.P/610 P. Duffy died of his wounds. Those kia are in Redoubt Cemetery, Helles. Duffy is in Lancashire Landing Cemetery, Helles.

Here is his RND record card :-   https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/D7291693

Lt Dundas was himself killed in action at Suvla Bay a month later.

Edited 12 September , 2019 by horatio2

[Guest]

Thank you very much sir.