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The Great War (1914-1918) Forum

German patient at Colchester - 1 of 7


heatherannej

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Hello there

I have been advised to create a separate thread for each of seven German patients discovered at Colchester Military Hospital.  The Germans wrote in a nurse's autograph book and, although the page is not dated, I know the nurse was at the Colchester Military Hospital from 14.10.1914 to 18.6.1915.  This is the first German, he has actually written his message in English.  If it is considered not a suitable posting, I will stop at this lad.  Any help given will be much appreciated.  Many thanks, Heather

 

BRETSCHNEIDER, Richard
from Hainichen in Saxony, Germany:  Regiment 107 9. Komp. 

“For thinking to the time in the Military Hospital in Colchester.”

 

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   Here is the POW card from the International Red Cross- which shows that he was in hospital for typhoid. The date of 11. January 1915 is unclear- whether that is his POW date or when he ended up in hospital in  Colchester The references on the card should lead to other records on the ICRC Prisoners site but nothing is showing up when I try them.

     There is a history of the Saxon 107 Landwehr Regiment in the war (published in  German in 1930) but he does not seem to be mentioned by name. A zap of the German records on Ancestry should throw more about him

 

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Edited by Guest
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A6767 records that he was held at Dorchester PoW camp on 15.03.1915, Sutton Veny Military Hospital on 16.07.1916 and Dorchester PoW camp on 02.03.1917.

 

Charlie

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1 minute ago, charlie2 said:

A6767 records that he was held at Dorchester PoW camp on 15.03.1915, Sutton Veny Military Hospital on 16.07.1916 and Dorchester PoW camp on 02.03.1917.

 

Charlie

 

   Any joy with angl. b 344 or 348?  

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31 minutes ago, voltaire60 said:

 

   Any joy with angl. b 344 or 348?  

 

No, nothing shows up.

 

From the Verlustlisten - Richard Karl Gottfried Bretschneider, reported missing on 28.10.1914 at Rue de Bois, No3 Coy IR 104 but was serving with IR 107. Reported wounded and in English captivity in the VL dated 08.11.1915.

 

Charlie

Edited by charlie2
Typo
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THANK YOU ALL SO MUCH.   Your information is so valuable, I am so grateful to you all.   I will post the second lad on next :-)  Many thanks again, Heather

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I found this through the link http://des.genealogy.net/eingabe-verlustlisten/search/index which was shared by a member on another thread I started so this must be him too, yes?  Although the Regiment Number does not match.  Heather

 

Verlustlisten 1. Weltkrieg, page 2655: Bretschneider Richard Karl Gottfried (Hainichen i. Sa.):

 

Page Number 2655; Ausgabe 201; Datum [Date] 1914-11-15; Last name Bretschneider; First name Richard Karl Gottfried; Ort Hainichen  i. Sa.; Liste Sachsen 55; Reg.o.ä. Infanterie-Regiment 104.

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Here is the second one:    The reference no. is a puzzle-which gets larger for other matters/ Charlie- have a go at this one  on "Ang 348"-and the whole of that volume round that reference. I do not know what it represents.

 

file front side

 

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  • 4 weeks later...
On 26/06/2018 at 23:58, voltaire60 said:

Here is the second one:    The reference no. is a puzzle-which gets larger for other matters/ Charlie- have a go at this one  on "Ang 348"-and the whole of that volume round that reference. I do not know what it represents.

 

Ersatz-Reservist Leonhard Bühringer from Kraßholzheim (near Scheinfeld) served with 2. Komp. / Infanterie-Regiment 'Alt-Württemberg' (3. Kgl. Württembergisches) Nr.121, a regiment of the Württemberg 26. Inf. Div. / XIII. Armeekorps. He was initially reported missing during the fighting at Fromelles (25th-26th October) in the Verlusteliste of 20th November 1914:

 

http://des.genealogy.net/search/show/381345

 

He was subsequently reported as wounded and captured in a correction included in the Verlusteliste of 24th November 1915 (yes, a whole year later):

 

http://des.genealogy.net/search/show/1491312

 

For those who aren't familiar with the terminology, I should mention that an Ersatz-Reservist was one of the roughly half of the eligible male population who had not been picked for training in peacetime upon reaching military age. These men were called up soon after the outbreak of war (if they didn't volunteer first like my GGF) and began to be sent to the front as replacements as soon as their (grossly accelerated) training was complete. It is likely that the unfortunate Bühringer had only been with the regiment for a matter of weeks or even days prior to his capture.

 

 

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On 26/06/2018 at 22:15, charlie2 said:

From the Verlustlisten - Richard Karl Gottfried Bretschneider, reported missing on 28.10.1914 at Rue de Bois, No3 Coy IR 104 but was serving with IR 107. Reported wounded and in English captivity in the VL dated 08.11.1915.

 

It's a weird case - Kriegsfreiwilliger (war volunteer) Bretschneider was certainly on the books of IR 104 but was for some reason with IR 107 prior to his capture. At the time IR 104 was fighting further to the north with 40. Inf. Div. at Ploegsteert Wood. IR 107 and its sister regiment IR 106 (together with some smaller units, roughly half of 24. Inf. Div.) had initially been left on the Champagne front when XIX. Armeekorps went to Flanders in early October. These two regiments were first committed to the fighting west of Lille on 23rd October - so IR 107 was considerably fresher than IR 104 by 28th October. I would therefore have expected IR 107 to be reinforcing IR 104 rather than the other way around!

 

There's also a smaller inconsistency - he was with 7. / IR 107, not 9. / IR 107. His birthplace was Hainichen in Saxony, which is slightly misspelled in the hospital record. He was initially reported as missing in the Verlusteliste of 15th November 1914: 

 

http://des.genealogy.net/search/show/728600

 

The Verlusteliste of 6th February 1915 reported that Bretschneider was alive and in British captivity at Colchester (I've never seen the place of captivity mentioned in the lists like this before):

 

http://des.genealogy.net/search/show/1441214

 

A further update on 8th November 1915 clarified that he had been in wounded condition when captured:

 

http://des.genealogy.net/search/show/2923117

 

NB: as a volunteer, Bretschneider had evidently not served in peacetime either. He too had certainly only been in the field for a very short time. For comparison my GGF volunteered in August and reached his own regiment (FAR 48 / 23.ID / XII.AK) in the field on 12th October.

Edited by bierast
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15 minutes ago, bierast said:

t is likely that the unfortunate Bühringer had only been with the regiment for a matter of weeks or even days prior to his capture.

Thanks Bierast ... ALL that information is very interesting.  It gives me a further understanding and is enlightening.  Perhaps he considered himself lucky to get captured?    I will edit my piece on him ... Thanks very much, Heather

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On 26/06/2018 at 21:27, voltaire60 said:

There is a history of the Saxon 107 Landwehr Regiment in the war (published in  German in 1930) but he does not seem to be mentioned by name. A zap of the German records on Ancestry should throw more about him

 

Please note that Infanterie-Regiment 107 (IR 107), Reserve-Infanterie-Regiment 107 (RIR 107) and Landwehr-Infanterie-Regiment 107 (LIR 107) were entirely separate formations belonging to different divisions, and connected only by rough geographical origin in the western half of Saxony (IR 107 and RIR 107 were from Leipzig, LIR 107 from Zwickau).

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11 minutes ago, bierast said:

 

Please note that Infanterie-Regiment 107 (IR 107), Reserve-Infanterie-Regiment 107 (RIR 107) and Landwehr-Infanterie-Regiment 107 (LIR 107) were entirely separate formations belonging to different divisions, and connected only by rough geographical origin in the western half of Saxony (IR 107 and RIR 107 were from Leipzig, LIR 107 from Zwickau).

 

     Noted!!  Suddenly the quaint British system of naming regiments seems highly sensible!! :wub:

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