ADM337 annotation 'resigned (reconstruction)'

[RogerWill]

I am trying to understand a ADM 337 record (relating to barrister Evelyn Riviere, who served with HMS President as an AB from Nov 1914 to 31 March 1915. At the latter point the file notes 'Resigned (Reconstruction)'. Since he engaged 'for hostilities', it seems unusual that he could 'resign'. Can anybody throw some light on this annotation? Thanks

 

[ARABIS]

His Official No., was A.A.705 which means he was R.N.V.R. Anti-Aircraft Corps. If you put the latter into the Forum search engine you will get an idea of what that entailed.

[RogerWill]

Thanks Arabis. Thats interesting and helpful. Has anybody anything on the 'Resigned (Reconstruction)' annotation? Or indeed anything showing later WWI service by Riviere?

Edited 24 June , 2018 by RogerWill

[horatio2]

I have never come across the "reconstruction" notation before.

Nor can I find any later service for Evelyn Riviere. There was another rating with the same uncommon surname, CPO Henry Gilbey Riviere, AA306 RNVR who was latter commissioned Lieutenant RNVR. Possible relative?

RNVR enrolment papers for both men are held at the Fleet Air Arm Museum,

[RogerWill]

Thanks Horatio. I'll check out the FAA Museum records and also the Henry Gilbey Riviere idea; they were not brothers, I know that. Cousins perhaps. Its interesting the annotation seems so rare and that he was apparently able to resign in the middle of a war.

[IPT]

I was wondering if it was a reason for his resignation, in the sense that he was required elsewhere? Do you know what he did after 1915?

 

There was a Ministry of Reconstruction, but that wasn't formed until 1917.

[RogerWill]

I wondered that myself too. As yet, I have not been able to discover what he was involved in after he 'resigned'. He was born in 1876 so would have been 39 at this stage, still old enough to serve.

[Guest]

  I am scratching my head because I have come across this before-but cannot place where. My memory is that the man I looked up at Kew for another GWF colleague was similarly a barrister in early middle age-and similarly  HMS President and allegedly AA.  Again,my memory is that he  never served in that capacity and moved on to some other war work.  I have a strong feeling that it is worth chasing the unit rather than the man for the answer. I suspect that,as HMS President is not only London,RN but a cover for all sorts of odds and sods, then this AA unit may turn out to be merely a nominal holding unit for those of "a certain age" who had signed up to serve but were not immediately placed in ship or other shore establishment.

    Just a thought-  See if I can find my previous look-up for this unit

[SiegeGunner]

I have researched two men, one RNR and the other RNVR, who were pre-war officials (one senior, the other middle-ranking) in the Labour Department of the Board of Trade.  They were recalled to Whitehall to help plan and organise the setting-up of the Ministry of Munitions, well ahead of its emergence as an effective organisation, and returned to their naval duties once the department was 'up and running'.  Perhaps this chap was recruited to assist in the setting-up of the Ministry of Reconstruction at a similarly early stage.

[horatio2]

this AA unit may turn out to be merely a nominal holding unit for those of "a certain age" who had signed up to serve but were not immediately placed in ship or other shore establishment.

This is most unlikely. The RNVR Anti-Aircraft Corps was a formed body, not a "holding unit". However, it was somewhat unusual in that the men enrolled were often part-time and continued to hold down their civilian jobs. Originally they were required to do duty on four hours every other night. When the Admiralty increased this to six hours there were many resignations. Later men were 'full-time' (= 24 hours on and 24 hours off). Some, however, were 12 hours on every other day or night and others dawn to dusk.

 

My guess is that Able Seaman Riviere resigned because the "reconstruction" of the Corps (read "re-organisation of rosters") no longer suited his barristerial duties.

 

There were several components of the RNVR AAC: The London RNVR AAC (9 Oct 1914); The Dover RNVR AAC (29 Oct 1914); The Sheffield RNVR AAC (10 Dec 1914); The Southern Mobile RNVR AAC (10 Feb 1915); The Eastern Mobile RNVR AAC (27 Jan 1915); The London Mobile RNVR AAC (Sep 1915) and the Foreign Service Sections of the RNVR AAC (Dec 1914 - Dec 1915). In January 1916 the Foreign Service units were transferred to the RNAS. The UK units were eventually taken over by the army.

 

[Guest]

3 hours ago, horatio2 said:

This is most unlikely. The RNVR Anti-Aircraft Corps was a formed body, not a "holding unit". However, it was somewhat unusual in that the men enrolled were often part-time and continued to hold down their civilian jobs. Originally they were required to do duty on four hours every other night. When the Admiralty increased this to six hours there were many resignations. Later men were 'full-time' (= 24 hours on and 24 hours off). Some, however, were 12 hours on every other day or night and others dawn to dusk.

 

My guess is that Able Seaman Riviere resigned because the "reconstruction" of the Corps (read "re-organisation of rosters") no longer suited his barristerial duties.

 

There were several components of the RNVR AAC: The London RNVR AAC (9 Oct 1914); The Dover RNVR AAC (29 Oct 1914); The Sheffield RNVR AAC (10 Dec 1914); The Southern Mobile RNVR AAC (10 Feb 1915); The Eastern Mobile RNVR AAC (27 Jan 1915); The London Mobile RNVR AAC (Sep 1915) and the Foreign Service Sections of the RNVR AAC (Dec 1914 - Dec 1915). In January 1916 the Foreign Service units were transferred to the RNAS. The UK units were eventually taken over by the army.

 

 

  Concur wholeheartedly with all of this. RNVR  AA was a real enough entity in practical terms-there seems a fair bit in the record about Dover. It was unlikely that barristers en masse would do anything but disrupt the legal system if they all went at one if of military age. What made me think that their role was initially a holding one is the present-day location of the ship HMS President- moored right across the road from the Temple. Thus, handy for lawyers.There are smatterings about what various barristers did in the war but it does seem that an arrangement was in place to facilitate part-time or nominal service  until mid-1915,as men were found jobs elsewhere or,presumably, as their civilian commitments allowed them to go.

    Navies need XO-types and barristers fill the role-  I was thinking of the likes of Sir Alan Herbert (A,P.Herbert-"Misleading Cases") and his career-  RNVR then off to RND at Gallipoli. In the Second World War, we have, of course, that well-known old-salt  Ian Fleming and  the barrister Evan Montagu (The Man Who Never Was).  In the States, one Richard Nixon was already beyond seagoing age in 1941 but applied as an XO for the USN because of the higher age limit (and was sent to Iowa)

   What I cannot see obviously is the detail of how such an arrangement worked- but I should be over to Kew soon and be able to look up the file in the Official Histories papers which might provide an answer.  I notice that "Discovery" has 2 files with the nominal registers of  this unit. Hopefully, they will also have some information.