stephen p nunn Posted 21 June , 2018 Share Posted 21 June , 2018 Morning all. I am keen to find out about a Royal Engineer's Sapper with the unusual name of Arthur Ernest IMISON (service number 87432). I know that he is buried at Essex Farm Cemetery and he was with the 39th Div, Signal Coy. He was the son of Richard George and Rosa Maria Imison of 26 Motson Road, South Norwood, London. Hew was only 18 when he died on 12/6/1917 and his parents paid for an extra inscription on his grave. Does anyone know anything about the circumstances of his death please? Thank you. Stephen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry_Reeves Posted 21 June , 2018 Share Posted 21 June , 2018 Stephen Your best bet is the unit war diary which can be downloaded from TNA site. The document reference is WO95/2576/3. TR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clk Posted 21 June , 2018 Share Posted 21 June , 2018 Hi Stephen, The diary entry appears to read: "SIGNAL DUGOUT in Canal Bank hit direct by 5.9 shell, 6 of 116 Bde Section in dugout of which 3 killed and 3 wounded (E [?] died of wounds)". The other 2 men who were killed appear to be: Regards Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
little bob Posted 21 June , 2018 Share Posted 21 June , 2018 (edited) FMP has Surrey Recruitment Registers 1908-1933. First name(s) A. E. Last name Imison. Age 19years 6 months. ( Keen to join up lied about his age) Birth place Battersea. Occupation Clerk. Attestation date 26April 1915. Attestation place Kingston on Thames. Height 5ft 4.5 ins. Weight 117lbs. Remarks 26 Notson Road, South Norwood, S E. Bob Edited 21 June , 2018 by little bob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stephen p nunn Posted 21 June , 2018 Author Share Posted 21 June , 2018 Chris and Bob - thank you so much. The picture is building about this young casualty. Best regards. Stephen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stephen p nunn Posted 21 June , 2018 Author Share Posted 21 June , 2018 Thanks to Pals on this Forum and some research of my own, this is the known story about Arthur so far: Arthur Ernest IMISON Sapper (87432) Royal Engineers (39th Div. Signal Coy.) Birth and Early Life Born on 19th September 1898 in Battersea, the son of Richard George and Rosa Maria Imison of 26 Motson Road, South Norwood, London. In 1901 he was aged 2 and living with his parents Richard (22, a bricklayer’s labourer) and Rosa (23) and, his older brother; Wilfred (3) and mother’s brother, Edwin Walls Ims (18) at 17 Duffield Street, Battersea. In 1911 he was aged 12 and living with his parents Richard (32, a laundry carman) and Rosa (33) and his older brother; Wilfred (13) and mother’s brother, Edwin Walls Ims (28, a printer compositor) at 5A Frouse Street, Wandsworth Road SW (Battersea). Employment Before the war Arthur worked as a booking clerk at East Dulwich Railway Station. Enlistment According to the Surrey Recruitment Registers (1908-1933) Arthur attested at Kingston on Thames on the 26th April 1915. He said that he was 19 years and 6 months, but had lied about his age as he was keen to join up. At the time he was 5ft 4½ inches tall and weighed 117lbs. Active Service The War Diary for the 12/6/1917 reads: “SIGNAL DUGOUT in Canal Bank hit direct by 5.9 shell, 6 of 116 Bde Section in dugout of which 3 killed (these were Sappers Leggett, Pereira and Imison) and 3 wounded…". Death and Burial Died on 12/6/1917 (aged 18) Buried at Essex Farm Cemetery and his parents paid for an extra inscription on his grave: “HIS LOSS SEEMS GREATER AND HIS MEMORY DEARER AS THE YEARS ROLL BY”. Entitled to the General Service medal pair (British War and Victory medals). Can anyone add anything please? Thank you. Stephen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clk Posted 21 June , 2018 Share Posted 21 June , 2018 Hi Stephen, His Soldiers' Effects records show that a war gratuity payment was "not admissible". The reason seems to be that he was a "Postal Servant". I might well be wrong, but I seem to recall reading (probably one of Craig's' posts), that where postal workers were being paid at their civilian pay rates, it negated a War Gratuity entitlement. Hopefully, Craig may pick up on this topic and confirm, or otherwise. Images sourced from Findmypast - Army Registers of Soldiers' Effects collection Regards Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ss002d6252 Posted 21 June , 2018 Share Posted 21 June , 2018 38 minutes ago, clk said: Hi Stephen, His Soldiers' Effects records show that a war gratuity payment was "not admissible". The reason seems to be that he was a "Postal Servant". I might well be wrong, but I seem to recall reading (probably one of Craig's' posts), that where postal workers were being paid at their civilian pay rates, it negated a War Gratuity entitlement. Hopefully, Craig may pick up on this topic and confirm, or otherwise. Images sourced from Findmypast - Army Registers of Soldiers' Effects collection Regards Chris Spot on Chris. Because they retained full wages the government made sure they didn't pay twice. Craig Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin DavidOwen Posted 21 June , 2018 Admin Share Posted 21 June , 2018 There are 17 Imison MICs recorded at TNA http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/results/r/2?_q=Imison&_col=200&_cr1=WO 372&_hb=tna None of them are a Wilfred though there is a John Wilfred who served https://www.ancestry.co.uk/interactive/1262/30850_A000810-00039?pid=4933245&backurl=https%3A%2F%2Fsearch.ancestry.co.uk%2Fcgi-bin%2Fsse.dll%3F_phsrc%3Dtxl25%26_phstart%3DsuccessSource%26usePUBJs%3Dtrue%26indiv%3D1%26qh%3DcZ1yEiJvDK%2FxFtENsHRd4A%3D%3D%26db%3DMedalRolls%26gss%3Dangs-d%26new%3D1%26rank%3D1%26msT%3D1%26gsfn%3DW%26gsfn_x%3DNP_NN_NIC%26gsln%3DImison%26gsln_x%3D1%26MSAV%3D1%26uidh%3De21%26pcat%3D39%26fh%3D0%26h%3D4933245%26recoff%3D10%2011%2023%2024%26ml_rpos%3D1&treeid=&personid=&hintid=&usepub=true&_phsrc=txl25&_phstart=successSource&usepubjs=true&bm=true . Perhaps his older brother did not serve overseas? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RaySearching Posted 21 June , 2018 Share Posted 21 June , 2018 UK Railway Employment Record shows his occupation as a booking clerk joined 13th April 1914, resigned 23rd April 1915, enlisted 3 days later Enlistment According to the Surrey Recruitment Registers (1908-1933) Arthur attested at Kingston on Thames on the 26th April 1915. He said that he was 19 years and 6 months, but had lied about his age as he was keen to join up. At the time he was 5ft 4½ inches tall and weighed 117lbs. The anomaly is where does his postal service employment fit in (as effects register) with the railways? Im curious Just asking Ray Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ss002d6252 Posted 21 June , 2018 Share Posted 21 June , 2018 26 minutes ago, RaySearching said: UK Railway Employment Record shows his occupation as a booking clerk joined 13th April 1914, resigned 23rd April 1915, enlisted 3 days later Enlistment According to the Surrey Recruitment Registers (1908-1933) Arthur attested at Kingston on Thames on the 26th April 1915. He said that he was 19 years and 6 months, but had lied about his age as he was keen to join up. At the time he was 5ft 4½ inches tall and weighed 117lbs. The anomaly is where does his postal service employment fit in (as effects register) with the railways? Im curious Just asking Ray Good question Ray - I'll have a look myself and see if I can spot anything (so far I've only seen the post made by Chris with the snippets of the effects) Craig Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ss002d6252 Posted 21 June , 2018 Share Posted 21 June , 2018 There are 2 records in the effects - Chris has posted the relevant gratuity entry that was made to each record. (The 'PW' entry noted for £3 is the Service Gratuity (Pay Warrant Gratuity as sometimes known) for, up to, 3 qualifying years of service). Curious though. For whatever reason the regimental paymasters believed he did not qualify for a war gratuity and informed the effects branch of this. The effects branch then noted the 'postal servant' comment as the reason - I can't see where they'd have that information other than via the W5070 from (or subsequent enquiry to) the regimental paymaster. Why the paymaster made the calculation they did is another matter. Craig Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stephen p nunn Posted 21 June , 2018 Author Share Posted 21 June , 2018 Thanks all - how odd about the Gratuity? Were any other effects listed and returned home? Has anyone seen a picture of Arthur? Thanks for all your continued support. Best wishes. Stephen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ss002d6252 Posted 21 June , 2018 Share Posted 21 June , 2018 4 minutes ago, stephen p nunn said: Thanks all - how odd about the Gratuity? Were any other effects listed and returned home? Has anyone seen a picture of Arthur? Thanks for all your continued support. Best wishes. Stephen. Certainly odd - I think it's safe to say I've worked with more gratuities than anyone else on here and it's the first time I've seen one like that where there was no obvious link to postal service. Don't get confused by the name of the 'Soldier's Effects Register' - it dealt only with financial affairs, not physical effects. Craig Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ss002d6252 Posted 21 June , 2018 Share Posted 21 June , 2018 At the start of the war a lot of GPO trained and employed telephonists were pulled out of battalions they were members of to man the RE Signals but there's nothing to say he was a Post Office employer. Doesn't fully explain the 'postal servant' note but there is however a relatively obscure part of Army Order 17 of 1919 – Schedule (as made) - which adds a clause to the War Gratuity that I have never seen used before. As it's so obscure it's possible someone just assumed it was down to being a postal servant that he didn't qualify ... Quote 12 The following periods of service will not reckon as qualifying service for the purposes of the gratuity:- .... (c) Any period of service during which the soldier has been continuously in receipt of full civil wages, except, as may be otherwise provided by the Army Council. Do we know if any of his colleagues who did the same job at the railway were also killed so we can see what they are marked as ? Craig Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stephen p nunn Posted 21 June , 2018 Author Share Posted 21 June , 2018 It looks like he was with the London, Brighton and South Coast Railway. I am aware there is a memorial to the staff who were killed in the Great War, but I am not sure he is on it? Regards. Stephen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RaySearching Posted 21 June , 2018 Share Posted 21 June , 2018 Arthurs entry from Croydon and the great war (page 325) although no photo shown as employed with the London, Brighton and South Coast Railway. as Stephen's post no 16 Ray Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stephen p nunn Posted 21 June , 2018 Author Share Posted 21 June , 2018 Excellent Ray - many thanks. Stephen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stephen p nunn Posted 22 June , 2018 Author Share Posted 22 June , 2018 11 hours ago, RaySearching said: Arthurs entry from Croydon and the great war (page 325) although no photo shown as employed with the London, Brighton and South Coast Railway. as Stephen's post no 16 Ray Hi Ray - can you think of any other source that I might search for a photograph please? Thanks. S. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stephen p nunn Posted 22 June , 2018 Author Share Posted 22 June , 2018 I have just discovered that his name is included on the war memorial in the Church of St Philip with St Bartholomew, St Philips Square, Battersea. (An elaborate war memorial for parishioners and Old Boys of Tennyson Street School (just around the corner, now a TV studio). The memorial was moved f... rom a side chapel into the place formerly occupied by the organ. Panels, with two columns of names on each, are on either side of a Crucifixion scene. The church is no longer Anglican but is a place of worship for the Ethiopian Orthodox Tewahedo). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RaySearching Posted 22 June , 2018 Share Posted 22 June , 2018 10 hours ago, stephen p nunn said: can you think of any other source that I might search for a photograph please? Thanks. Most of the large railway companies Great Western Railway and the North Eastern Railways spring to mind printed photographs of the fallen in the railway staff magazines, many thousands of photographs of fallen railway employees can be found in the magazines many also produced roll of honour books after the war whether this was also true for the the London, Brighton and South Coast Railway. I don't know The national railway museum may be able to assist with your query A search of the local newspapers where Arthur resided may also produce a resulting photo the London, Brighton and South Coast Railway. do have a memorial to the fallen HERE Ray Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stephen p nunn Posted 22 June , 2018 Author Share Posted 22 June , 2018 Thanks Ray - that's odd - he isn't on there? Regards. Stephen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clk Posted 22 June , 2018 Share Posted 22 June , 2018 Hi, 50 minutes ago, stephen p nunn said: that's odd - he isn't on there? Perhaps as he resigned before joining up, as an ex-employee he didn't qualify for inclusion? Regards Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RaySearching Posted 22 June , 2018 Share Posted 22 June , 2018 Just had a quick nosey From The National Railway Museum Here Indicates there are four memorial to The London, Brighton and South Coast Railway. Text from the above link London Brighton & South Coast Railway booklet "War Memorials," 1921. Contains descriptions of the memorials and the unveiling ceremonies at London Bridge, Brighton, Victoria and Lancing, and a roll of honour list of the names on the memorials. Ray Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stephen p nunn Posted 23 June , 2018 Author Share Posted 23 June , 2018 Thanks both. A bit more searching for me I think. Regards. S. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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