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The Great War (1914-1918) Forum

Ersatz Rifle - think take M95 bayonet?


Steve1871

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did a post today on Ersatz rifle 

turkish M87 with single shot Steyr barrel, has a Lug. A Styer barrel with lug would usually take the M95 right? I guessing here. Anyone got any ideas?Thanks

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You will have to play around! When Steyr supplied new barrels for the Ottoman army's Peabody-Martini Rifles 1909-1910, the Ottoman government insisted they have the same external diameter and fittings as before to continue using their existing P-M bayonets - socket and sword-type! You could try for a start a Turkish M.1890 bayonet...

 

If not possible to play around, then measurements needed for the lug and muzzle diameter, etc.

 

 

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There is no way it will fit an M1895 bayonet ... if it is in the same configuration as those photos you posted.

That rifle has the old-style "bar on band" bayonet lug, so you will be looking to attach a "low-ring" bayonet.

So that rules out the Austrian M1895 as well as the Turk M1890. I would be trying the Turk M1887 first up.?

 

PS. An Austrian M1888 bayonet should also work. Whatever bayonet fits may be a good clue as to end-user.

Edited by shippingsteel
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Thans for the correction cobber!

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1 hour ago, shippingsteel said:

There is no way it will fit an M1895 bayonet ... if it is in the same configuration as those photos you posted.

That rifle has the old-style "bar on band" bayonet lug, so you will be looking to attach a "low-ring" bayonet.

So that rules out the Austrian M1895 as well as the Turk M1890. I would be trying the Turk M1887 first up.?

 

PS. An Austrian M1888 bayonet should also work. Whatever bayonet fits may be a good clue as to end-user.

 

Good point - are we talking about the same rifle?

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Thanks for the great responses guys,Trajan and SS! This collecting is like a treasure hunt, never know what you will find!If it fits an older, more impressive bayonet the better. Will find out before too long I hope?!

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This rifle here, as posted on the other thread. Note "bar on band" bayonet lug ... quite a heavy barrel. I would guess at least 16.5mm MRD.

image.jpg.3cdfac350c990ac5ca32dea6dfb28d

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Ta SS!

 

Yep, the only way to get the end-user should be the bayonet that fits - bit like Cinderella's shoe...:D

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My friend Paul tested bayonets on that ersatz rifle. Say S71 and 1888 Austrain both fit but 71/84 fit best.

Several country's used 61/84 on export.Asked Paul for pics

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The mystery deepens... So that's a MRD of about 17.0 mm, which rules out a Turkish 1887 (well, not the first one that comes to my hand!), and so not a conversion for the Turks...

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But Hey, You LOVE a MYSTERY!!!

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Interesting about the S71/84 ... another very common surplus item in the 1890's. I think OEWG may have been cobbling together bits out of the "useful box".!

 

So in the rough timeframe we are talking (1890-95) both the overrun M1887 rifles from the discontinued Turkish contract, and the German 71/84 rifles and their bayonets were decidedly obsolete. The Germans introduced the Gew 88 Commissions rifle but figured the old S71/84 combination was too short and decided to go with the longer S71 bayonet instead (in the main, except for Bavaria, etc). This means there are plenty of S71/84 bayonets around as surplus.

 

I believe the rudimentary sighting arrangement on these mystery conversions (with the very basic rear sight) points to a secondary or non-standard use, meaning they are not be used as a long-range infantry rifle. However issue to a Naval force as secondary armaments or perhaps for destroying sea-mines makes perfect sense. Also in that situation the bayonet would just be an accessory, not important for close-range fighting.

Edited by shippingsteel
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IIRC the Turkish Model 1887 was a magazine fed weapon using a 9.5 mm black powder round 

Was replaced first by the Mauser 1890 in 7.65 (copy of Belgian Mauser) and the Model 1893 (copy of the Spanish Mauser) 

 

What is the caliber …?  Was it as stated a one off assembled from spare parts ??

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Everywhere I look , say they used 8x50r Barrels

 

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