kelly Posted 15 June , 2018 Share Posted 15 June , 2018 Hi all I've recently discovered my grandad had to be treated at a CCS on W Beach in December 15 Could I ask if any one has information on this hospital any one with any photo's they would share with me please Garry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michaeldr Posted 15 June , 2018 Share Posted 15 June , 2018 In December 1915 above W Beach, there were the 17th Stationary Hospital, the three Lowland Field Ambulances and the RND Field Ambulances. Do you know which unit treated your grandfather? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kelly Posted 15 June , 2018 Author Share Posted 15 June , 2018 17 minutes ago, michaeldr said: In December 1915 above W Beach, there were the 17th Stationary Hospital, the three Lowland Field Ambulances and the RND Field Ambulances. Do you know which unit treated your grandfather? Hi, he was treated at CCS 149, does this help Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michaeldr Posted 15 June , 2018 Share Posted 15 June , 2018 1 hour ago, kelly said: Hi, he was treated at CCS 149, does this help Sorry Kelly, but I cannot pin that one down You may find the Medical OH useful - see https://archive.org/details/medicalservicesg04macp Good Luck Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michaeldr Posted 15 June , 2018 Share Posted 15 June , 2018 This sketch map is taken from the Medical OH referred to in the previous post, and it shows the main medical units at Helles [The movement of No.11 CCS occurred in mid-December following a warning from the Turks that it was sited too close to other legitimate targets which they could not ignore] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b3rn Posted 15 June , 2018 Share Posted 15 June , 2018 Hi Kelly, What's your source for 149? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alantwo Posted 15 June , 2018 Share Posted 15 June , 2018 (edited) Hi Kelly I'm wondering if the CCS is a typo. The CCS units at Gallipoli were (as far as I know) 11, 13, 14, 16, 24, 26, 52, 53 and 54. Could it possibly be 14th CCS? If so there were at Suvla and were getting ready to pack up and leave for Mudros. The entry for the 15th Dec reads: 15th Dec 1915 Despatched operating tables sterilized instruments etc., via GLOUCESTER CASTLE to C/O Medical Stores ALEXANDRIA. Received orders to draw 2 days iron rations & 4 days ordinary rations. " False dumps" erected as our camp looked rather bad. Do you know which Regiment your granddad was in? Michael will be able to pin point whether they were at Suvla, Anzac or Helles, it might narrow down the possible CCS options. Regards Alan Edited 17 June , 2018 by alantwo Spelling Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michaeldr Posted 15 June , 2018 Share Posted 15 June , 2018 (edited) 3 hours ago, alantwo said: I'm wondering if the CCS is a typo. The CCS units at Gallipoli where (as far as I know) 11, 13, 14, 16, 24, 26, 52, 53 and 54. I'm wondering that too, Alan Now this may be a red herring, but..... later in the war, when the RND were under the Army on the WF, their 2nd F A was re-titled 149th (RN) Field Ambulance Has some records clerk slipped-up when re-copying details here? It will be interesting to see what further info Kelly can add regards Michael Edited 15 June , 2018 by michaeldr Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alantwo Posted 15 June , 2018 Share Posted 15 June , 2018 (edited) 2 hours ago, michaeldr said: I'm wondering that too, Alan Now this may be a red herring, but..... later in the war, when the RND were under the Army on the WF, their 2nd F A was re-titled 149th (RN) Field Ambulance Has some records clerk slipped-up when re-copying details here? It will be interesting to see what further info Kelly can add regards Michael Hi Michael That's interesting, however I think it may be as you say a red herring. The ADMS RND appears to be still referring to 2nd Field Ambulance in late January 1916. As you say it could however equally be a clerk's typo. I think knowing the Regiment he was with will help though. I don't think the map below helps specifically in this thread but I thought it could run alongside your post #5 above, I came across the evacuation routes in the French Sector, which indicates first aid posts (Postes de secours). Please correct me if I'm wrong, but if I've read the War Diary correctly the RND 1st FA dealt with this sector during the evacuation. Kind regards Alan Edit I should have added that the RND 2nd FA appears to have gone to 'V' Beach for evacuation. Happy to be corrected. Edited 15 June , 2018 by alantwo Additional info Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tunesmith Posted 15 June , 2018 Share Posted 15 June , 2018 Here's a link to a photo of W Beach including 11 CCS https://www.iwm.org.uk/collections/item/object/205266582 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kelly Posted 15 June , 2018 Author Share Posted 15 June , 2018 6 hours ago, b3rn said: Hi Kelly, What's your source for 149? Hi My source came from Find my Past, British Armed Forces, First World War Soldiers Medical Records (transcription) One page which is just a sheet giving information states Hospital, 149th field hospital, further down it states transferred to CCS w beach The next page is a catalogue of Return of Operations, no hospital given but states he was transferred to CCS W beach Does this help Garry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kelly Posted 15 June , 2018 Author Share Posted 15 June , 2018 6 hours ago, alantwo said: Hi Kelly I'm wondering if the CCS is a typo. The CCS units at Gallipoli where (as far as I know) 11, 13, 14, 16, 24, 26, 52, 53 and 54. Could it possibly be 14th CCS? If so there were at Suvla and were getting ready to pack up and leave for Mudros. The entry for the 15th Dec reads: 15th Dec 1915 Despatched operating tables sterilized instruments etc., via GLOUCESTER CASTLE to C/O Medical Stores ALEXANDRIA. Received orders to draw 2 days iron rations & 4 days ordinary rations. " False dumps" erected as our camp looked rather bad. Do you know which Regiment your granddad was in? Michael will be able to pin point whether they were at Suvla, Anzac or Helles, it might narrow down the possible CCS options. Regards Alan Hi Alan Thanks for your post, my grandad was Lance Corporal 10310 Thomas William Jelly, 1st Bttn, Kings Own Border Regiment Garry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michaeldr Posted 15 June , 2018 Share Posted 15 June , 2018 (edited) 2 hours ago, kelly said: My source came from Find my Past, British Armed Forces, First World War Soldiers Medical Records (transcription) One page which is just a sheet giving information states Hospital, 149th field hospital, further down it states transferred to CCS w beach The next page is a catalogue of Return of Operations, no hospital given but states he was transferred to CCS W beach Well Garry, neither the number '149th' nor the title wording 'Field Hospital' seem to fit - there were Field Ambulances and a Stationary Hospital If a 'hospital' was really what was meant, then I guess it would be the 17th Stationary Hosp. Likewise the 11th CCS seems the best bet for that mentioned at W Beach (its movement from near W Beach was after the 15th December 1915) regards Michael Edited 15 June , 2018 by michaeldr Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michaeldr Posted 15 June , 2018 Share Posted 15 June , 2018 2 hours ago, alantwo said: I came across the evauation routes in the French Sector, which indicates first aid posts (Postes de secours). Please correct me if I'm wrong, but if I've read the War Diary correctly the RND 1st FA dealt with this sector during the evacuation. Edit I should have added that the RND 2nd FA appears to have gone to 'V' Beach for evacuation. Happy to be corrected. As far as I recall Alan, all of the RND evacuated the peninsula via V Beach regards Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alantwo Posted 15 June , 2018 Share Posted 15 June , 2018 3 hours ago, kelly said: Hi Alan Thanks for your post, my grandad was Lance Corporal 10310 Thomas William Jelly, 1st Bttn, Kings Own Border Regiment Garry Hi Garry Would you be kind an confirm your grandad's details. Did you mean KOSB or Border Regiment? There does not seem to be a Thomas William Jelly with that Regimental Number. Regards Alan 1 hour ago, michaeldr said: As far as I recall Alan, all of the RND evacuated the peninsula via V Beach regards Michael Thank Michael Alan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kelly Posted 16 June , 2018 Author Share Posted 16 June , 2018 9 hours ago, alantwo said: Hi Garry Would you be kind an confirm your grandad's details. Did you mean KOSB or Border Regiment? There does not seem to be a Thomas William Jelly with that Regimental Number. Regards Alan Thank Michael Alan Hi, Thomas William Jelly was a regular when war broke out, he joined the Kings Own Border Regiment at Carlisle Castle in 1912, I've always known his number to be 10310 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kelly Posted 16 June , 2018 Author Share Posted 16 June , 2018 11 hours ago, michaeldr said: Well Garry, neither the number '149th' nor the title wording 'Field Hospital' seem to fit - there were Field Ambulances and a Stationary Hospital If a 'hospital' was really what was meant, then I guess it would be the 17th Stationary Hosp. Likewise the 11th CCS seems the best bet for that mentioned at W Beach (its movement from near W Beach was after the 15th December 1915) regards Michael Morning Michael Grateful for your help with my enquiry, my grandads medical condition was a swollen left testicle and so I would imagine would be relatively easy to treat Does this alter your way of thinking as to where he was treated Garry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michaeldr Posted 16 June , 2018 Share Posted 16 June , 2018 Garry In 1915 the regimental name was The Border Regiment and their headquarters were indeed at Carlisle Castle [The Kings Own Royal Border Regiment was a later manifestation in the second half of the twentieth century] On 15th December 1915 the 1st Battalion, The Border Regiment, were out of the line in rest camp and the suggested route (Stationary Hospital, then CCS) would seem to fit regards Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alantwo Posted 16 June , 2018 Share Posted 16 June , 2018 1 hour ago, kelly said: Hi, Thomas William Jelly was a regular when war broke out, he joined the Kings Own Border Regiment at Carlisle Castle in 1912, I've always known his number to be 10310 Thanks Garry Thanks also Michael for confirming The Border Regiment. The only man I can find with Regimental No. 10310 in the Medal Index Cards for 1st Battalion, Border Regiment is William Thomas Trown; Date of Entry: 25/4/15 (2B). It doesn't mean to say that another man doesn't have the same number, but if there is I haven't been able to find it. There are two men in the MICs with the surname Jelly in the Regiment, No.9588 Albert C and No.8119 Arthur. The former has the same date of entry and thus is probably 1st Battalion, but the latter has 2nd Battalion noted on the MIC. Regards Alan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kelly Posted 16 June , 2018 Author Share Posted 16 June , 2018 7 hours ago, alantwo said: Thanks Garry Thanks also Michael for confirming The Border Regiment. The only man I can find with Regimental No. 10310 in the Medal Index Cards for 1st Battalion, Border Regiment is William Thomas Trown; Date of Entry: 25/4/15 (2B). It doesn't mean to say that another man doesn't have the same number, but if there is I haven't been able to find it. There are two men in the MICs with the surname Jelly in the Regiment, No.9588 Albert C and No.8119 Arthur. The former has the same date of entry and thus is probably 1st Battalion, but the latter has 2nd Battalion noted on the MIC. Regards Alan Hi Alan This is interesting as they are one and the same man. My grandad changed his name from Jelly to Trown and is something I've been researching for 23 years, I think I know why and recently saw a paper ad stating his change of name but this was in 1917, he also uses the name in 1919 when he marries my grandma. This confirms an earlier use of the surname and is another milestone in my research for the tree. So I've learned a few things here and feel confident that W beach was where he was treated and now know he was using the name earlier Garry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michaeldr Posted 16 June , 2018 Share Posted 16 June , 2018 10 hours ago, michaeldr said: On 15th December 1915 the 1st Battalion, The Border Regiment, were out of the line in rest camp This should not be misinterpreted, since 'rest' in fact meant hard work, albeit out of the firing line. During this time they were employed on - new Brigade winter quarters in the coastal cliffs near W Beach - new winter quarters for the 52nd Division HQ - Royal Engineer fatigues A few more snippets - during the week in question (that ending 18th December 1915) they had 1 officer sick in hospital, and 14 Other Ranks also sick None killed, wounded or missing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kelly Posted 16 June , 2018 Author Share Posted 16 June , 2018 6 minutes ago, michaeldr said: This should not be misinterpreted, since 'rest' in fact meant hard work, albeit out of the firing line. During this time they were employed on - new Brigade winter quarters in the coastal cliffs near W Beach - new winter quarters for the 52nd Division HQ - Royal Engineer fatigues A few more snippets - during the week in question (that ending 18th December 1915) they had 1 officer sick in hospital, and 14 Other Ranks also sick None killed, wounded or missing. Hi Thanks for the latest update, we could consider my grandad to be one of those reported as sick Regards Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alantwo Posted 17 June , 2018 Share Posted 17 June , 2018 17 hours ago, kelly said: Hi Alan This is interesting as they are one and the same man. My grandad changed his name from Jelly to Trown and is something I've been researching for 23 years, I think I know why and recently saw a paper ad stating his change of name but this was in 1917, he also uses the name in 1919 when he marries my grandma. This confirms an earlier use of the surname and is another milestone in my research for the tree. So I've learned a few things here and feel confident that W beach was where he was treated and now know he was using the name earlier Garry Garry The year 1917 probably still holds for a name change, as the MICs were complied towards the end of the war. A Service Record would probably tell you from which point he was using the alternative surname. Just for completeness the 11th CCS mentioned by Michael, moved on 15th December, all cases having been evacuated earlier in the day. By the 16th they had moved to 13J-3, albeit it took a few days to complete the move. If it is of interest there is a plan of the camp in the War Diary. Regards Alan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michaeldr Posted 17 June , 2018 Share Posted 17 June , 2018 1 hour ago, alantwo said: the 11th CCS mentioned by Michael, moved on 15th December, all cases having been evacuated earlier in the day. By the 16th they had moved to 13J-3, albeit it took a few days to complete the move. That's interesting Alan, The date which I have seen is 18th Dec; presumably that represents the date when it was up, running and open for business at the new site Thanks for the clarification regards Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alantwo Posted 18 June , 2018 Share Posted 18 June , 2018 15 hours ago, michaeldr said: That's interesting Alan, The date which I have seen is 18th Dec; presumably that represents the date when it was up, running and open for business at the new site Thanks for the clarification regards Michael Hi Michael It would appear that the unit wasn't up and running until 22nd December when they began taking patients from the RND. The previous day notes that the tents were up but the huts were still incomplete. Hope that helps. Kind regards Alan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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