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Remembered Today:

CCS W Beach


kelly

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Hi all

I've recently discovered my grandad had to be treated at a CCS on W Beach in December 15

Could I ask if any one has information on this hospital any one with any photo's they would share with me please

Garry

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In December 1915 above W Beach, there were the 17th Stationary Hospital, the three Lowland Field Ambulances and the RND Field Ambulances.

Do you know which unit treated your grandfather?

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17 minutes ago, michaeldr said:

In December 1915 above W Beach, there were the 17th Stationary Hospital, the three Lowland Field Ambulances and the RND Field Ambulances.

Do you know which unit treated your grandfather?

Hi, he was treated at CCS 149, does this help

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This sketch map is taken from the Medical OH referred to in the previous post, and it shows the main medical units at Helles

[The movement of No.11 CCS occurred in mid-December following a warning from the Turks that it was sited too close to other legitimate targets which they could not ignore]

 

1357654842_MapMedicalunitsHelles1915.jpg.fbe2c053480bfeea4dfef37d2750054c.jpg

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Hi Kelly

 

I'm wondering if the CCS is a typo. The CCS units at Gallipoli were (as far as I know) 11, 13, 14, 16, 24, 26, 52, 53 and 54. Could it possibly be 14th CCS? If so there were at Suvla and were getting ready to pack up and leave for Mudros. The entry for the 15th Dec reads:

 

15th Dec 1915

Despatched operating tables sterilized instruments etc., via GLOUCESTER CASTLE to C/O Medical Stores ALEXANDRIA.

Received orders to draw 2 days iron rations & 4 days ordinary rations. " False dumps" erected as our camp looked rather bad.

 

Do you know which Regiment your granddad was in? Michael will be able to pin point whether they were at Suvla, Anzac or Helles, it might narrow down the possible CCS options.

 

Regards

Alan

Edited by alantwo
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3 hours ago, alantwo said:

 

I'm wondering if the CCS is a typo. The CCS units at Gallipoli where (as far as I know) 11, 13, 14, 16, 24, 26, 52, 53 and 54.

 

I'm wondering that too, Alan

 

Now this may be a red herring, but.....

later in the war, when the RND were under the Army on the WF, their 2nd F A was re-titled 149th (RN) Field Ambulance

Has some records clerk slipped-up when re-copying details here?

 

It will be interesting to see what further info Kelly can add

 

regards

Michael

Edited by michaeldr
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2 hours ago, michaeldr said:

 

I'm wondering that too, Alan

 

Now this may be a red herring, but.....

later in the war, when the RND were under the Army on the WF, their 2nd F A was re-titled 149th (RN) Field Ambulance

Has some records clerk slipped-up when re-copying details here?

 

It will be interesting to see what further info Kelly can add

 

regards

Michael

 

Hi Michael

 

That's interesting, however I think it may be as you say a red herring. The ADMS RND appears to be still referring to 2nd Field Ambulance in late January 1916. As you say it could however equally be a clerk's typo. I think knowing the Regiment he was with will help though.

 

I don't think the map below helps specifically in this thread but I thought it could run alongside your post #5 above, I came across the evacuation routes in the French Sector, which indicates first aid posts (Postes de secours). Please correct me if I'm wrong, but if I've read the War Diary correctly the RND 1st FA dealt with this sector during the evacuation.

 

Kind regards

Alan

 

Edit I should have added that the RND 2nd FA appears to have gone to 'V' Beach for evacuation. Happy to be corrected.

 

 

RND ADMS 197A.jpg

Edited by alantwo
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Here's a link to a photo of W Beach including 11 CCS

 

https://www.iwm.org.uk/collections/item/object/205266582

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6 hours ago, b3rn said:

Hi Kelly,

What's your source for 149?

Hi

My source came from Find my Past, British Armed Forces, First World War Soldiers Medical Records (transcription)

One page which is just a sheet giving information states

Hospital, 149th field hospital, further down it states transferred to CCS w beach

The next page is a catalogue of Return of Operations, no hospital given but states he was transferred to CCS W beach

 

Does this help

 

Garry

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6 hours ago, alantwo said:

Hi Kelly

 

I'm wondering if the CCS is a typo. The CCS units at Gallipoli where (as far as I know) 11, 13, 14, 16, 24, 26, 52, 53 and 54. Could it possibly be 14th CCS? If so there were at Suvla and were getting ready to pack up and leave for Mudros. The entry for the 15th Dec reads:

 

15th Dec 1915

Despatched operating tables sterilized instruments etc., via GLOUCESTER CASTLE to C/O Medical Stores ALEXANDRIA.

Received orders to draw 2 days iron rations & 4 days ordinary rations. " False dumps" erected as our camp looked rather bad.

 

Do you know which Regiment your granddad was in? Michael will be able to pin point whether they were at Suvla, Anzac or Helles, it might narrow down the possible CCS options.

 

Regards

Alan

Hi Alan

Thanks for your post, my grandad was Lance Corporal 10310 Thomas William Jelly, 1st Bttn, Kings Own Border Regiment

Garry

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2 hours ago, kelly said:

My source came from Find my Past, British Armed Forces, First World War Soldiers Medical Records (transcription)

One page which is just a sheet giving information states

Hospital, 149th field hospital, further down it states transferred to CCS w beach

The next page is a catalogue of Return of Operations, no hospital given but states he was transferred to CCS W beach

 

Well Garry,

neither the number '149th' nor the title wording 'Field Hospital' seem to fit - there were Field Ambulances and a Stationary Hospital

If a 'hospital' was really what was meant, then I guess it would be the 17th Stationary Hosp.

Likewise the 11th CCS seems the best bet for that mentioned at W Beach (its movement from near W Beach was after the 15th December 1915)

 

regards

Michael

Edited by michaeldr
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2 hours ago, alantwo said:

 I came across the evauation routes in the French Sector, which indicates first aid posts (Postes de secours). Please correct me if I'm wrong, but if I've read the War Diary correctly the RND 1st FA dealt with this sector during the evacuation.

Edit I should have added that the RND 2nd FA appears to have gone to 'V' Beach for evacuation. Happy to be corrected.

 

As far as I recall Alan, all of the RND evacuated the peninsula via V Beach

 

regards

Michael

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3 hours ago, kelly said:

Hi Alan

Thanks for your post, my grandad was Lance Corporal 10310 Thomas William Jelly, 1st Bttn, Kings Own Border Regiment

Garry

 

Hi Garry

 

Would you be kind an confirm your grandad's details. Did you mean KOSB or Border Regiment? There does not seem to be a Thomas William Jelly with that Regimental Number.

 

Regards

Alan

1 hour ago, michaeldr said:

 

As far as I recall Alan, all of the RND evacuated the peninsula via V Beach

 

regards

Michael

 

Thank Michael

 

Alan

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9 hours ago, alantwo said:

 

Hi Garry

 

Would you be kind an confirm your grandad's details. Did you mean KOSB or Border Regiment? There does not seem to be a Thomas William Jelly with that Regimental Number.

 

Regards

Alan

 

Thank Michael

 

Alan

Hi, Thomas William Jelly was a regular when war broke out, he joined the Kings Own Border Regiment at Carlisle Castle in 1912, I've always known his number to be 10310

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11 hours ago, michaeldr said:

 

Well Garry,

neither the number '149th' nor the title wording 'Field Hospital' seem to fit - there were Field Ambulances and a Stationary Hospital

If a 'hospital' was really what was meant, then I guess it would be the 17th Stationary Hosp.

Likewise the 11th CCS seems the best bet for that mentioned at W Beach (its movement from near W Beach was after the 15th December 1915)

 

regards

Michael

Morning Michael

Grateful for your help with my enquiry, my grandads medical condition was a swollen left testicle and so I would imagine would be relatively easy to treat

Does this alter your way of thinking as to where he was treated

Garry

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Garry

 

In 1915 the regimental name was The Border Regiment and their headquarters were indeed at Carlisle Castle

[The Kings Own Royal Border Regiment was a later manifestation in the second half of the twentieth century]

On 15th December 1915 the 1st Battalion, The Border Regiment, were out of the line in rest camp and the suggested route (Stationary Hospital, then CCS) would seem to fit

 

regards

Michael

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1 hour ago, kelly said:

Hi, Thomas William Jelly was a regular when war broke out, he joined the Kings Own Border Regiment at Carlisle Castle in 1912, I've always known his number to be 10310

 

Thanks Garry

 

Thanks also Michael for confirming The Border Regiment. 

 

The only man I can find with Regimental No. 10310 in the Medal Index Cards for 1st Battalion, Border Regiment is William Thomas Trown; Date of Entry: 25/4/15 (2B).  It doesn't mean to say that another man doesn't have the same number, but if there is I haven't been able to find it.

 

There are two men in the MICs with the surname Jelly in the Regiment, No.9588 Albert C and No.8119 Arthur. The former has the same date of entry and thus is probably 1st Battalion, but the latter has 2nd Battalion noted on the MIC.

 

Regards

Alan

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7 hours ago, alantwo said:

 

Thanks Garry

 

Thanks also Michael for confirming The Border Regiment. 

 

The only man I can find with Regimental No. 10310 in the Medal Index Cards for 1st Battalion, Border Regiment is William Thomas Trown; Date of Entry: 25/4/15 (2B).  It doesn't mean to say that another man doesn't have the same number, but if there is I haven't been able to find it.

 

There are two men in the MICs with the surname Jelly in the Regiment, No.9588 Albert C and No.8119 Arthur. The former has the same date of entry and thus is probably 1st Battalion, but the latter has 2nd Battalion noted on the MIC.

 

Regards

Alan

Hi Alan

This is interesting as they are one and the same man. My grandad changed his name from Jelly to Trown and is something I've been researching for 23 years, I think I know why and recently saw a paper ad stating his change of name but this was in 1917, he also uses the name in 1919 when he marries my grandma. This confirms an earlier use of the surname and is another milestone in my research for the tree.

So I've learned a few things here and feel confident that W beach was where he was treated and now know he was using the name earlier

Garry

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10 hours ago, michaeldr said:

On 15th December 1915 the 1st Battalion, The Border Regiment, were out of the line in rest camp

This should not be misinterpreted, since 'rest' in fact meant hard work, albeit out of the firing line.

During this time they were employed on

- new Brigade winter quarters in the coastal cliffs near W Beach

- new winter quarters for the 52nd Division HQ

- Royal Engineer fatigues

A few more snippets - during the week in question (that ending 18th December 1915) they had 1 officer sick in hospital, and 14 Other Ranks also sick

None killed, wounded or missing.

 

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6 minutes ago, michaeldr said:

This should not be misinterpreted, since 'rest' in fact meant hard work, albeit out of the firing line.

During this time they were employed on

- new Brigade winter quarters in the coastal cliffs near W Beach

- new winter quarters for the 52nd Division HQ

- Royal Engineer fatigues

A few more snippets - during the week in question (that ending 18th December 1915) they had 1 officer sick in hospital, and 14 Other Ranks also sick

None killed, wounded or missing.

 

Hi

Thanks for the latest update, we could consider my grandad to be one of those reported as sick

Regards

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17 hours ago, kelly said:

Hi Alan

This is interesting as they are one and the same man. My grandad changed his name from Jelly to Trown and is something I've been researching for 23 years, I think I know why and recently saw a paper ad stating his change of name but this was in 1917, he also uses the name in 1919 when he marries my grandma. This confirms an earlier use of the surname and is another milestone in my research for the tree.

So I've learned a few things here and feel confident that W beach was where he was treated and now know he was using the name earlier

Garry

 

Garry

 

The year 1917 probably still holds for a name change, as the MICs were complied towards the end of the war. A Service Record would probably tell you from which point he was using the alternative surname.

 

Just for completeness the 11th CCS mentioned by Michael, moved on 15th December, all cases having been evacuated earlier in the day. By the 16th they had moved to 13J-3, albeit it took a few days to complete the move. If it is of interest there is a plan of the camp in the War Diary.

 

Regards

Alan

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1 hour ago, alantwo said:

the 11th CCS mentioned by Michael, moved on 15th December, all cases having been evacuated earlier in the day. By the 16th they had moved to 13J-3, albeit it took a few days to complete the move.

 

That's interesting Alan,

The date which I have seen is 18th Dec; presumably that represents the date when it was up, running and open for business at the new site

Thanks for the clarification

 

regards

Michael

 

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15 hours ago, michaeldr said:

 

That's interesting Alan,

The date which I have seen is 18th Dec; presumably that represents the date when it was up, running and open for business at the new site

Thanks for the clarification

 

regards

Michael

 

 

Hi Michael

 

It would appear that the unit wasn't up and running until 22nd December when they began taking patients from the RND. The previous day notes that the tents were up but the huts were still incomplete.

 

Hope that helps.

 

Kind regards

Alan

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