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Karennz

Entry to Forces or/and service number?

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Karennz

I have enquired here before a few years ago. Thank you for the info I did receive. Is there any way I can tell when my Grandad joined the forces from any of these records attached. Do any of the numbers show his service number 

Thank you 

Karen Atkinson

New Zealand

 

post-32120-0-41046300-1321349536 (1).jpg

post-32120-1241772410 (1).jpg

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Andy Wade
Posted (edited)

You can't tell when he enlisted from that, but it looks like he entered war theatre after January 1st 1916 as there's no entry date on the medal card.

Forgot to add, his service number is on both documents and is 2922731.

 

Edited by Andy Wade

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Karennz

Thank you Andy - Do you have any idea what the remarks - The numbers  - are on the top document - the Roll of individuals.  If I had his service number would I get any more information? Im clueless when it comes to this

Karen

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Andy Wade
Posted (edited)

The start of the number has 'IV' which means 'issue voucher' which just tell the clerks about the issue of his medal and the rest is probably administration numbers the meaning of which has been lost. I'm not aware of any published information on these.

He looks to have served in Iraq and earned the General Service Medal which means he left his native shore and served in a minor conflict, but possibly not into an actual theatre of war as he has not been awarded a Victory Medal.
More on that here and it does mention Iraq for which he has the clasp:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Service_Medal_(1918)

Edited by Andy Wade

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tullybrone
Posted (edited)

Hi,

 

He has a seven figure army number which suggests service post 1920. The MIC was often used in the immmediate post war years for non WW1 awards - as in this case the Iraq General Service Medal.

 

His Army Service papers will likely be held by the U.K. MOD in Glasgow and will be available to NOK at a cost of £30.

 

Here is the link to download the forms - 

 

https://www.gov.uk/get-copy-military-service-records/apply-for-someone-elses-records

 

Good Luck

 

Steve

 

Edited by tullybrone

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tullybrone
16 minutes ago, Andy Wade said:

You can't tell when he enlisted from that, but it looks like he entered war theatre after January 1st 1916 as there's no entry date on the medal card.

Forgot to add, his service number is on both documents and is 2922731.

 

 

Andy,

 

There is no evidence on the MIC that he had WW1 service -  MIC only refers to post war service in Iraq.

 

Steve

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Maureene

The Iraq clasp for the General Service Medal was issued for specified service in Iraq in 1919 and 1920, see Wikipedia link above.

This time period falls within the dates used by the Commonwealth War Graves Commission for WW1, 4 August 1914 to 31 August 1921, so I believe

OWEN could possibly  be considered to have WW1 service, and a WW1 medal.

 

Cheers

Maureen

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Chris_Baker
Posted (edited)

Maureen that is not correct and may mislead the original poster. The war dates used by CWGC are not relevant to entitlement for Great War campaign medals. As stated above, the only thing that this card and roll suggests is that the man served after the 1920 numbering scheme was introduced and that he was entitled to the General Service Medal. It implies nothing regarding Great War Service.

Edited by Chris_Baker

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Andy Wade
1 hour ago, tullybrone said:

 

Andy,

 

There is no evidence on the MIC that he had WW1 service -  MIC only refers to post war service in Iraq.

 

Steve

 

Yeah, I meant to say it the other way around ie he couldn't have entered before first Jan 1916. As it is he doesn't look to have served in WW1 and got the GSM with Iraq bar instead of any war medals.

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spof

Karen

 

Do you have a year of birth for your grandfather?

 

He may have been too young to serve in WW1 but he also could have been enlisted too late to go overseas and thus not qualify for any WW1 medals. Your best bet is to follow the link Tullybrone posed and get his service record.

 

Glen

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Dai Bach y Sowldiwr

There are online lists of soldiers whose records are still held with the MOD. Some 500,000 in all I think, in about 8 Excel spreadsheets. Sorry, I don't have the link, but to ensure you have the right man, you must have his date of birth. Google  'MOD Service records Freedom of Information".

 

Or perhaps someone could post the link.

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spof
11 minutes ago, Dai Bach y Sowldiwr said:

There are online lists of soldiers whose records are still held with the MOD. Some 500,000 in all I think, in about 8 Excel spreadsheets. Sorry, I don't have the link, but to ensure you have the right man, you must have his date of birth. Google  'MOD Service records Freedom of Information".

 

Or perhaps someone could post the link.

 

I think you are referring to this

 

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/foi-responses-released-by-mod-week-commencing-1-december-2014

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tullybrone
2 hours ago, spof said:

Karen

 

Do you have a year of birth for your grandfather?

 

He may have been too young to serve in WW1 but he also could have been enlisted too late to go overseas and thus not qualify for any WW1 medals. Your best bet is to follow the link Tullybrone posed and get his service record.

 

Glen

 

Hi,

 

On her 2011 post on this same subject the OP said her GF DOB was 26th May 1900.

 

I’m assuming from the last 2 letters in her forum name that Karen is domiciled in New Zealand and with the time difference she may not return to the forum until the wee small hours (UK time).

 

Steve

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Dai Bach y Sowldiwr
4 hours ago, spof said:

That's exactly it.

Thanks Glen.

 

Karen,

If Robert P. Owen, dob 26/05/1900 is in one of these lists, then the MOD will have his service record.

(Sorry, I can't check at the moment, I'm accessing the web via my smartphone).

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TEW

I had a look at the MOD lists and there is no R Owens with that number. However, it has been shown on forum that those lists cannot be complete for pre-1901 births as others have found records that are not listed in the spreadsheets.

There could always be a possibility of another WWI MIC for the same man with another number & unit?

TEW

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