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251st Tunnellers re/ CC records


arantxa

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im trying to find war diary for 19th or 29th January 1916 also how one finds cc records for William James  Geach died 31st

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Hi,

 

The war diary for the time can be downloaded from the National Archives for £3.50 - link here.

 

36 minutes ago, arantxa said:

cc records

 

What do you mean by "cc"?

 

Regards

Chris

 

 

 

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12 minutes ago, clk said:

Hi,

 

The war diary for the time can be downloaded from the National Archives for £3.50 - link here.

 

 

What do you mean by "cc"?

 

Regards

Chris

 

 

 

It may be the reference to the 33CCS that I mentioned on the other thread Chris.



Craig

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Casualty clearing station  at Bethune he died on 31st  is there any way to find when he went  there or what the wounds were  thanks for the other info

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Casualty clearing station  at Bethune he died on 31st  is there any way to find when he went  there or what the wounds were  thanks for the other info

thanks I did the link diary didn't mention anything hence I wanted dates for cc  incase its further back than jan 1916

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Hi,

 

2 hours ago, ss002d6252 said:

It may be the reference to the 33CCS that I mentioned on the other thread

 

thanks Craig.

 

arantxa

 

Post war the government kept a 'representative sample' of 'hospital' admission/discharge registers which show injuries, etc and are now held by the National Archives in their MH 106 record series. Findmypast have some images, and Forces War Records have some transcriptions. I didn't see anything for your man though.

 

33 CCS has a war diary, but it will probably just bundle up your man in a numerical head count. My understanding is that in general terms the role of CCSs in the evacuation chain was to 'patch them up and ship them out'. In modern terms they couldn't allow for bed blocking, so often it was a quick in/out on the same day. I guess therefore that he was admitted on, or shortly before his date of death. I have however also read instructions in one diary that deaths in, or in transit from, for example from Advance Dressing Stations, should be recorded against the CCS that were receiving their casualties. 

 

You should be able to establish which RAMC units 33 CCS was receiving casualties from, and perhaps may help to fill part of the gap.

 

Regards

Chris

 

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On 05/06/2018 at 19:35, arantxa said:

im trying to find war diary for 19th or 29th January 1916 also how one finds cc records for William James  Geach died 31st

Hello

Just caught my eye this one.

A good read for you would be the book 'battle beneath the trenches' the Cornish miners of 251 Tunneling Coy RE by Robert K Johns.

Really good book with some excellent appendix's at the Back with regard to personnel that served in it.

 

Hope this helps

 

Chris

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As Chris says the dairy for 33 CCS only gives a head count for the month which is 871 admitted and 86 died. In daily lists they may be separating those being patched up and moved out by barge as being 'taken in' and those needing more care (or too injured to move out) as 'admitted'. They have 'admitted' for 20/1/16 = 37 and for 31/1/16 =32. From the 20th everyone else seems to be 'taken in' .

 

You'll rarely find out  which Field Ambulance took men to a CCS as quite often a MAC, ambulance train, barge took over that part of the evacuation.

 

However, I have found out the following;

33CCS came under command of the 1st Army, their appendices give some clues as to the medical arrangements which adds that 33CCS in Bethune was for troops from I Corps. Between the 2 diaries I can add that I Corps comprised 2, 12 & 33 Divisions and i think all the field ambulances evacuated from ADS to 12 MAC who took wounded to the CCSs.

 

I Corps DDMS diary gives locations for their FAs on 22/1/16, which are;

 

2nd Div.

ADSs, 5 FA at Marais F.5.a.3.5. 100 FA Lone Farm F.12.c.6.5

Also running a DAW in Bethune and that's a new one on me.

 

12 Div.

ADSs 36 FA Fouquieres, 37 FA Bourbeq, 38 FA Gonnehem

DAW at E.5.c.5.3

 

33 Div.

ADSs, 19 FA Cambrin Church, 99 FA Harley Street A.20.d.2.8.

Divisional Collecting Station at Beunry and a DAW in Annein.

 

For some reason they also list the Dismounted Cavalry Division FAs which were 1 FA Chateau Vermelles and 2 FA at the Brewery Vermelles.

 

You'd need to know where 251 Coy were in that week in order to know whether the FAs of 2, 12 or 33 division dealt with him and at which one of the 7 ADSs.

 

It's possible the General Staff or brigade diaries for those divisions may mention 251 Coy. working in their sector. At least those are on ancestry.

 

TEW

 

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That is very interesting thank you for your knowledge on it 

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I had a look at some other diaries and although not conclusive 2nd Div. seemed to have 170, 176 & 180 Tunnelling Coys. RE with them in Jan 1916. Quite a few narratives of events of mine blowing by both sides included.

 

12th Div. had 1 mention of 176 Tunnelling Coy for Jan 1916.

 

33 Div. doesn't mention any Tunnelling Coys at all but the list of mines or Camoflets blown by either side is quite extensive;

Jan 2nd - 2 x German Camoflets & 2 x German Mines

4th. 4 x British Camoflets

8th British Mine

9th German Mine

14th British Mine

15th British Mine

19th German Mine

21st 2x British Mines. 'Mine Point'

 

In the Feb diary they mention holding the German Mine blown on 29/1/1916.

 

TEW

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Missed something earlier. 33 Div. ADMS reports cases of diphtheria in 251 T Coy. RE 31/1/16.

That puts them in 33rd Div area. Their RAPs ran N-S sheet 36c; A.15.a. A.21.a. & A.27. a&b. The mining must have been taking place in western squares of A.16, A.22 or A.28. More to follow.

TEW

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If you can get hold of the 215 T RE diary and find out where Geach was wounded and the precise date I can then tell you the evacuation route from 'Front Battle Line' to RAP to ADS and then MDS in Bethune prior to being moved to 33 CCS.

 

Trench routes from Battle Line to RAPs are identified, there are only 3 possible routes, North, Centre and South parts of the line.

TEW

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Gosh  thank you so much I bought the diary but not a lot that relates (i see you a Teignmouth chap...im from Totnes) I have one more line of investigation to follow and will getb back too you  thank you for your knowledge on the subject

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I've tried hunting through more infantry diaires for 19, 98 & 100 Infantry Brigades but they seldom give map references for the line they are holding, they only refer to A, B or Z sector or trenches EG A1, Z0.

 

2nd Worcesters (100 Infantry Brigade) diary helps a bit more as they had enemy mines blown opposite them on 28th & 29th Jan 1916 and give a map ref of Sheet 36c A.21.d.45.15. They add that there was no damage but that's not to say there was no damage to underground British galleries.

 

Difficult to say if these mines are the same mines as reported in brigade diaires as being in sector Z and blown the same day.

 

In your 1st post you say you're not sure if he was wounded 19th or 29th Jan so that needs to be tightened as the Germans blew a mine opposite Boyau 16 on the 19th. Boyau 16 is on sheet 36c A.27.b.55 which is about 200-300 south of the mine blown on the 28th Jan.

 

TEW

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