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Remembered Today:

Re-burials


Nickh2203

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Hi,

 

I wonder if there is anyone out there who could answer a question, which has been puzzling me for some time.

 

My Wife's Great Uncle Joseph Pitman, was a Sergeant serving with the 1st Btn, Somerset Light Infantry and was killed on the 1st July 1916, which puts him in the second wave of the first battle of the Somme just north of Beaumont Hamel (close to the Hawthorn Ridge mine).

I have a copy of the Concentration of Graves - Burial return (dated 1924), which gives a grid reference where his body was exhumed after the war, having been buried (presumably) near where he fell by a subsequent unit moving into the area, after the Somersets were relieved in 1916.

 

Curiously Joseph's last resting place is in Pargny Cemetery, west of St. Quentin, some 48km away from where he fell.

 

Is there anyone out there who could offer a possible explanation of why he was re-interred so far away from where he fell? I've spoken to the War Graves Commission about this, but they had no idea how this could come about, especially as the transports used at the time would have predominantly been horses and carts.

 

I'd be grateful if anyone with any information on this procedure, could offer any information about how this may have come about.

 

Many thanks,

 

Nickh2203

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1st July 1916 was a huge defeat for the British Army-despite any subsequent glosses put on it. The German enemy remained in control  of the front and substantial numbers of casualties of that day could not be recovered. Many were brought in days if not weeks later-many more died slow deaths in No Man's Land. I suspect most British named burials for 1st July are for casualties not from going over the top in the front line but coming forward from reserve lines and into assembly positions.  I suspect the majority of dead in No Man's Land were not recovered at the time. That is certainly my experience in detailing the fates of casualties for 1st July in my local area.   Many were only recovered in  from territory given up by the Germans when they withdrew to the Hindenburg Line in  early 1917.

   Your forebear seems a curiosity.  He is not listed as a Prisoner of War by ICRC-the Germans were quite thorough about that.  The CWGC concentration report looks like it was an isolated grave found during a battlefield sweep after the war. It does not appear to be a contemporary burial by the Germans. All of those recovered on that concentration sheet had discs intact-which is evidence they were not buried by the Germans,as the discs would have been removed and recorded

 

     There seem to be 2 realistic possibilities:

 

1)  He died in German captivity of wounds and was csually buried without records. being kept. Unlikely but possible

 

2) On 1st July 1916 he was away from the main body of SLI.  This is a distinct possibility as he is the only soldier of SLI in that cemetery

 

  Best way- find out who occupied the map location for his burial on 1st July 1916-Plenty of members of GWF have trench map locators and can assist.

Edited by Guest
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A significant number of the few 1 July 1916 deaths in the cemetery were Royal Warwickshires.  Maybe something to follow up?  1 Royal Warwicks were in same division as, but different brigade to, 1 Somersets

Edited by Don Regiano
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1st Somerset L.I. were following the 1st Rifle Brigade on 1/7/16. Front covered from The Quadrilateral to Ridge Redoubt. The Quarilateral position is in the bottom right of Serre Road number 2 cemetery, a concentration cemetery. The 1st RB got to the German wire were they found it uncut. Finally they managed to get into the German trenches and with a party of the 1st Somerset L.I. began bombing to the German 2nd Line along Frontier Lane.

The survivors from the RB, SLI, Warwick's pushed on towards Munich Trench (2nd objective), as the day went on German counter attacks from the flanks took it's toll (29th & 31st Div attacks left and right of the 4th Div totally failed) until with no bombs left they were forced back to the base of the Quadrilateral killed or taken POW. Here they were relieved by the 1st Royal Irish Fusiliers the following morning.

 

Andy

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Having picked up on his concentration details and Andy's post, his original burial place, to the East of the Quadrangle, would suggest he may have been involved in the attack on Frontier Lane.  However, it doesn't answer your question.

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Thanks for all the responses, a whole lot more information there for me.

 

I think Don and I are thinking along the same lines and that Joseph was involved in the attack on Frontier Lane. The position of his exhumation in 1924 shown on the WGC Reburial Return puts him on the battlefield and the date in the notification of his demise, puts him in the 1st Battle of the Somme, the same day as Hawthorn Ridge mine. So I'm fairly confident that I've got the time and area of his death correct.

 

As Don says, it doesn't answer the question of why a body exhumed in 1924, was transported 48km away. I was told by WGC, that they tended to use horses and carts for that work, which seems a bit far with one of those.

 

The mystery deepens . . . .

 

Once again, many thanks for the comments . . . please keep them coming.

 

All the best,

 

Nick

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one possibility, has happened to one of my uncles, is that he was buried in a local churchyard and then exhumed at a later date and re buried at Wimille . these were done as either the small cemetery was decimated and not a lot remained OR it freed up a space for the locals. My great uncle was re buried to free space which if I remember was 300 kms away from original burial, that is todays road mileage.

the reburial was not done until June 1964 and included 9 of which 4 were WW2

 

he was originally buried at Montmirail Convent cemetery so moved twice to his final resting place. 43 km further than Epernay his mid point

Edited by chaz
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I believe that I have found the answer to my question, which was why my Wife's Great Uncle Joseph Pitman, Sgt., serving 1st Battalion Somerset Light Infantry has a final resting place so far away from where he was killed.

 

Josephs' remains weren't found until 1924, some 8 years after the 1st Battle of the Somme (1st July 1916), by which time the Imperial War Graves Commission had replaced the Directorate of Graves Registration and Enquiries(DGR&E), which had been reburying bodies using mainly Army volunteers. The IWGC worked closely with their French counterparts and were able to identify the presence of a large number of hitherto undiscovered bodies, remaining in their battlefield graves.

 

In Josephs case he was found at a grid reference very close to the point where Frontier Lane meets Serre Road, but he wasn't alone. I've managed to identify at least 16 others from the same 500yd grid square (they are a mix of Regiments). Despite there being two already established IWGC cemeteries within a few hundred yards of this location (Serre Road) as well as one slightly further away to the south (Redan Ridge), they were all full.

 

These "late finds" were gathered up and transported to an IWGC cemetery, which had the room to accommodate them. In this case it was Pargny which became the final resting places for these men. 

 

Interestingly, these men were in an area which remained in German hands until much later on, so it is very likely that they were buried by the German Army, which used to use "Peg" markers for both groups and individuals. These markers were small, about the width of a cricket bat, but only protruded 8" - 10" above ground level. I believe that the markers for these men were obliterated by subsequent fighting in the area, which would have been a reason for their late discovery. The fact that they were found at all, is probably due to sheer luck, as a great many others, from all the countries involved, will never have a known final resting place.

 

I hope this is interesting to anyone reading this and I'd like to offer my thanks all those who have added remarks and comments to this thread, this has been a very interesting bit of research for me.

 

All the best to everyone

 

Nick 

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  • Admin

Nick

 

I think you are corret. Reading through the thread reminded me of the "open cemetery" policy used once the official battlefield clearances finished. If you do  search for "open cemetery" (including the quotes) you will find a few more references to this.

 

Glen

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  • 4 weeks later...

An update and correction . . .

 

Just to "top and tail" this thread . . . .

 

I've been contacted by the Imperial War Graves Commission, who have confirmed that the nearby graveyards were designated as closed by 1924, hence the reason for Joe's transportation south to Pargny.

Most importantly, they have stated that once the Graves Registration Units (GRU) were disbanded, the IWGC was not actively involved in looking for the fallen. Instead they registered all subsequent finds from the war. They went on to state that Joe and the others found in this area, were most likely found because of farming, building or munitions clearance activities. So basically it was sheer chance that these men were found at all.

 

My thanks for all the help and comments offered from everyone, I have found this an incredibly fascinating exercise (which is still continuing). Also, my Wife and I intend to visit the area in September along with another area (St. Quentin) where another Great Uncle fell in 1918.

 

Once again, many thanks to all.

 

Nick 

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