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morrisc8

1917 German map with english trench names. Geheim

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morrisc8
Posted (edited)

I have a german map of part of Arras dated 10.2.17 that has british and german trenches in it. Secret "Geheim" on the top and it has some of the names of the british trenches  , Infantry road, ice street, ivy street + more names on it as well as the german names of there trenches.  Would they have captured a british map and pows to get that info.

This is part of the german map 1.5000. How good are there maps against the british maps.

   Keith

ww1 map 5.jpg

ww1 map 3.jpg

Edited by morrisc8

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genegwf

Nice map! Seem easier to read than British maps.

 

Gene

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morrisc8
Posted (edited)

This is the whole map. Shows british and German trenches .

ww1 map 1.jpg

Edited by morrisc8

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trajan
Posted (edited)

That is a very interesting piece! Can / will you give us a detail of the coding / text at the bottom? It should say who prepared the thing.

 

That aside, I do wonder how far back this tradition of 'Blue against red' goes? I have seen Ottoman maps that use the same coding, i.e., blue for 'us', and red for 'them'!

Edited by trajan

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morrisc8

If you can not read it i will rescan. Has just the date made and do not take in the trenches + made from the air photos.?

ww1 map 2.jpg

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morrisc8
Posted (edited)

Blue are German trenches and Red are British trenches

ww1 german map. 1.jpg

ww1 german map.jpg

Edited by morrisc8

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trajan
2 hours ago, morrisc8 said:

Blue are German trenches and Red are British trenches

 

ww1 german map.jpg

 

Thanks. So, 'Situation plan made on the basis of captured maps. Corrected and positions [plotted] from aerial photographs by the Flying detatchment"

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morrisc8

          Thanks  trajan for the  reply still need to make out the other info on the map.

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Howard

There are quite a few examples of maps from both world wars that were drawn by others than Germany but with German text etc. Some of the German invasion plans from the 1940s are British OS maps with a German legend, one even had the original OS copyright notice.

 

There are separate Belgian 1:80,000 series maps with either Belgian, British, French or German legends, it would be easy to think a map was "German" by its marginal data but really they had taken the sensible option of nicking someone else's. After all, what if the originating nation complained, what would they do, go to war over it?

 

Some maps are clearly headed as being drawn from enemy maps, others merely look like they have been.

 

Howard

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trajan
13 hours ago, morrisc8 said:

Blue are German trenches and Red are British trenches

ww1 german map. 1.jpg

 

 

You have this bit more or less correct - "It is strongly forbidden to take this map into the forward lines". Other bit here is "Verm[essungs] Abteilung 9 [Survey section 9], Mapping Office Goeulzin"

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morrisc8
Posted (edited)

           I do like the  "It is strongly forbidden part. Thanks .

           I think K1,K2 and K3 are German front lines, the xxxx are barbed wire, what is the British trench x30,x31,x32,x77 ect in red mg post? and numbers in blue                 ref points. 

           The top of the map shows just how close the British and German front lines are.

           Green, light Railway line and sector B6,C1, ect.

           On part of this map is a green house above number 59,could this be a British HQ?.

            Thanks for any help. There is no index on the map.

             Keith

             

         676671221_ww1germanmap3.jpg.b645a0140daf6dde5f80b758a66335ab.jpg

           1390806025_ww1germanmap2.jpg.215db9a99944c02b9ae98b0eed5a7add.jpg

Edited by morrisc8

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Ron Clifton

British trench maps did not normally show British trenches in any great detail. Those that did were classified as Secret. It looks as if the German map was copied from one of these, which were not supposed to be taken anywhere that they were likely to be captured.

 

Ron

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trajan
4 minutes ago, Ron Clifton said:

 ... It looks as if the German map was copied from one of these, which were not supposed to be taken anywhere that they were likely to be captured.

 

To judge from the caption I offered a translation for in no.7 this is indeed a captured map - a Beutekarten!

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trajan

This might help with some of the symbols - http://pickelhauben.net/german-tactical-symbols-1914/ although that is the 1914 system and the map is 1917.

 

Trajan

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morrisc8
Posted (edited)

Thank you for the map symbols, and i think a British HQ with maps could have been captured with the trench info on it..

This map also shows the German front lines so would of been of interest to the British if captured.

Edited by morrisc8

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stiletto_33853

10.000 scale 1/3/17

 

Arras 4-4-17 copy.jpg

Arras 4-4-17 copy.jpg

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stiletto_33853

Arras 4-4-17 copy.jpg

Arras 4-4-17 copy.jpg

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stiletto_33853

Arras 4-4-17 copy.jpg

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morrisc8

Thanks for adding your map and they are printed on paper unlike the british trench maps that are on linen.

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morrisc8

I have just bought this German map, I think it is south of my Arras one.


 

Screen Shot 2018-06-26 at 13.47.39.png

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