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JoF

German revolver, stowasher leggings & army compass

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JoF

I am researching David Hunter STEWART (1882-1971) [DHS], an officer with the Royal Field Artillery, who emigrated to Queensland, Australia, in 1920 as a solder settler nominated by the UK Oversea Settlement Committee.

 

At the time of his June 1919 demobilization, DHS was a Lieutenant with the 40th Howitzer Battery, Royal Field Artillery.

 

In May 1921 DHS reported to the Queensland police that goods had been stolen from his hut at Passchendale Soldiers’ Settlement [see below].

 

Can anyone give provide information or images on the

·         German "Ludwig" revolver described below;

·         pigskin stowasher leggings; &

·         army prismatic compass described below?

JoF

 

"DALVEEN. - Stolen from an open hut at Passchendale Soldiers’

Settlement between the 4th and 11th ultimo, the property of

DAVID HUNTER STEWART, same address, one German

“Ludwig” revolver, 9 m.m. calibre, sighted to 800 metres, barrel

6 or 7 inches long, detachable wooden butt, which may be used

as a rifle, German writing thereon, cleaning rod attached, enclosed

in a dark-brown leather case; one army prismatic compass, slightly

worn, a number and an arrow at back, “E. Clayton, 40th Batt.”;

one pair light khaki puttees; three starched collars; one horn

drinking cup, marked “Present from Aberdeen”; one fishing

reel, one Scotch tweed cap; one pair pigskin stowasher leggings;

one pair light Scotch tweed trousers, marked “Perth, Scotland’;

two pairs officers’ breeches, dark colour, with buckskin strappings,

marked “Brown, Perth, Scotland”; one pair officer’s breeches,

English make; one dozen shirts, some flannelette material, some

with white silk fronts; three pairs cotton underpants; one dozen

pairs Scotch woollen socks, “David Hunter Stewart” embroidered

on clothing: value £22 12s. -2600. 24 May 1921.
[Queensland Police Gazette, 1921, page 285]

 

(Vide “Police Gazette,” 1921, page 285.)

STANTHORPE. –Suspicion of stealing the revolver and other

articles, the property of DAVID HUNTER STEWART, attaches

to Arthur A. Pollock, who left Baupaume with his wife on the

28th ultimo, and his address is now said to be “Care of A.G.

Pollock, Ballaying, East Wagen, Western Australia.” -2679. 27th

May, 1921.”
[Queensland Police Gazette, 1921, p. 299]

 

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CountryJohn

I imagine that an expert will be along in a minute, but in the meantime, I would say that the 'Ludwig' revolver is almost undoubtedly a Lange Pistole 08, also known as the Artillery Luger: -

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luger_pistol

 

which had a detachable wooden stock / holster, was 9mm calibre and sighted to 800m, and of which the barrel was 7.9 inches long.  Not called 'Ludwig' (unless the sub-models possibly had sequential letter designations - I think 'Ludwig' was German phonetic-speak for 'L') and not a revolver, but it's a newspaper article ...

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Chasemuseum

The "Ludwig revolver" is probably an artillery model Luger in 9mm.  These are quite common. A couple of images from the internet attached.

I will try to organize a photo of a suitable prismatic compass and some pigskin stowser leggings tomorrow.

Cheers 

Ross

 

475971044_luger1.jpg.3e86090108dece8a9f1feeb779b0a353.jpg

 

Luger2.jpg.93296bfe7872fd9dd63c5f619f679aa8.jpg

 

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Waddell

JoF,

 

Stohwasser leggings are this style. Image from the AWM collection.

 

If you search the forum you will find a few threads about them-

 

 

Scott

 

stohwasser leggings.JPG

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Chasemuseum

Hi Scott,

Those are Stowasser leggings but not pig skin examples. The cut is the same but the texture of the leather is different. I have a pig skin pair and will try to post a photo tomorrow. 

 

These ordinary type bullock hide examples above were standard issue to other ranks, when mounted: cavalry, mounted infantry, artillery, service corps, ammunition park, engineers, survey, etc. The pig skin examples were officers private purchase and a little bit nicer than standard issue. Just a bit flash. 

Cheers

Ross

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JoF

CountryJohn, Ross & Waddell

 

Many thanks for your informative replies. I now understand why I reached a dead end in my research for a 'Ludwig' revolver and 'stowasher' leggings.  

 

Please note that I quoted the wrong birth year for David Hunter STEWART. It should be 1891 (July 28).

 

JoF

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ShtLE303

Ludwig Loewe put out a copy of the Smith & Wesson Third Model Russian..

2162-1.jpg

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ShtLE303
Posted (edited)

Oh, and yes, these revolvers were fitted with detachable stocks.

image009.jpg

Edited by ShtLE303

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JoF

ShtLE303

Thanks for your comments and images. 

 

Do you know the calibre and the 'sighting' of either the Smith & Wesson "Third Model Russian' or the Loewe copy? 

 

The owner of the revolver, David Hunter STEWART (1891-1971) fought on the Western Front and participated in the Army of Occupation. Do you know whether the German Army have been issued with the Ludwig Loewe revolvers of the type specified in the aforementioned gazette notice?

 

JoF

 

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MikB

Interestingly, the .44 S&W Russian round the Third Model was chambered for is sometimes regarded as the development basis of the 10,6mm Reichsrevolver round, and is marginally interchangeable with it. I say 'marginally' because the nominal bullet diameters are different by at least 12 thou, though some US reloading forum writers claim safe and acceptable results in 10,6 Reichsrevolver using .44 (actually .429/.430" diameter) bullets, but sticking to black powder propellant. Actual weapon bore dimensions are said to vary considerably.

 

So it may be that the Loewe copies were known to be capable of firing the 10,6 rounds already in the German supply chain. It may just be possible they were issued, or privately used, as alternatives where the P'08 was in shortage.

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2ndCMR

The "artillery" P08 was sighted to 800m so that settles that I would suggest.

 

Probably the weapon has since been destroyed in the interest of "public safety".

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JoF

Dear MikB & 2ndCMR 

 

Thanks for your responses. I am leaning towards the Ludwig Loewe copy of the Smith & Wesson 'Third Model Russian' as the revolver that was in David STEWART's possession. The adage 'a picture is worth a thousand words' is so true. It is wonderful to have an image to match the words.

 

I am trying to find a newspaper report of the theft, which may give further information. If the Stanthorpe (Queensland) police occurrence book for 1921 has survived, the Loewe/Luger issue may be answered.

 

JoF   

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MikB
Posted (edited)

No, I'm now thinking 2ndCMR is right. Any revolver firing either 44 S&W Russian or 10,6 Reichrevolver rounds would have only about half the velocity of the Artillery Luger, albeit with a bullet of nearly twice the weight.

 

Sighting such a round out to 800 M would be an exercise of such hopeless optimism that I can't imagine any designer or maker trying it. 

 

Gawd knows it was optimistic enough doing that with the Luger - I doubt anybody ever hit anything aimed at with one beyond about 200, and then not often - but at least we know that it was sighted so, and in 9mm calibre.

 

It's also worth commenting that the Berlin DWM company, which employed Georg Luger and manufactured the P.08 and its variants, was originally founded by Ludwig Loewe.

Edited by MikB

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JoF

Dear MikB

 

Thanks for your thoughts. As someone who knows nothing about munitiohs, I particularly appreciate your last sentence. As David STEWART was a Royal Field Artillery officer on the Western Front and the Army of Occupation, I assume he would get the manufacturer correct when advising the Queensland Police of the theft. 

 

JoF

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MikB
Posted (edited)

I believe the 'Luger' name for the P.08 range only started to become current in the 1920s, spreading out from the US, so it's very possible that Stewart was unfamiliar with that name and may've been a bit stuck for what to call it. Or he might've half-heard it somewhere and misremembered?

 

Certainly the allied side didn't generally call them 'DWM's, which was the only name written on them. In Germany itself, the Luger name wasn't widely recognised till the 1960s or 70s.

Edited by MikB

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JoF

Dear MikB

 

Thanks for your informative post. I shouldn't have been but I was surprised to read that Stewart was in possession of a German revolver when he came to Australia as a soldier settler. From your comments, I will now opt for the P.08 image when discussing the theft of goods from his hut. 

 

JoF

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