Assistance with wounded aerial gunner please

[adam1981]

Hello all,

I am researching a 223943 John Knight who served as an aerial gunner with 211 and 49 squadron in 1918. The service record states 'M.G.Wd Lt thigh fracture femur'. I would be very interested to know any information regarding how or when John was wounded, or who he was flying with, if in deed he was flying? 

I am not very experienced in ready RAF service records or research.

If John was an aerial gunner as his record indicates, i did not realise that Private ranks had this role?

Any help much appreciated,

Adam

[pierssc]

Not giving the date makes it a little more of a challenge, but I think I've found him.  According to "The Sky their Battlefield II" on 19 May 1918 DH9 serial No. C6181 of 49 squadron on a bombing mission was in combat with German D-types near Harbonnieres at 7.15pm, was hit in the engine and forced to land at Rainneville (Lt CG Capel wounded and 1AM J. Knight wounded).  A DH9 was claimed by Vfw W. Gabriel of Jasta 11 at 10pm NE of Marcelcave.

 

My understanding is that it was not unusual for non-officer ranks to act as gunners in cases such as bombing where an observer officer was not needed. There was a pay incentive.

 

According to Capel's casualty form, he suffered a GSW to the left upper arm.  He had been with the Squadron since 10th March.  https://www.casualtyforms.org/form/2618

 

The AIR 1/855 report for the aircraft quoted on airhistory.org.uk states "f/l Rainniville after attack by enemy aircraft during bombing Bray. Lt CG Capel inj/223943 1AM J Knight inj [Regt no. not shown]"  http://www.airhistory.org.uk/rfc/files/C1-C9999.csv

 

Hope this helps

Piers

Edited 27 May , 2018 by pierssc

[horatio2]

He was an Aircraftman 1st Class (Gunlayer) in the RNAS before transfer to the RAF. 

[adam1981]

Hello

Thank you very much for this fantastic research, it is very much appreciated. Starting to build up a real story (having read up about W. Gabriel also). There is one matter which is confusing me, this is that on further 'Googling' following your new information I have found the website at the link below, which lists J. Knight as an American Observer from the USAS, whereas the John Knight I am researching is from Edinburgh according to his service record? could this be a mistake on the website below?

 

http://www.49squadron.co.uk/losses/ww1_losses

 

Thanks again

Adam

[topgun1918]

The location of Capel and Knight's forced landing, Rainneville, is a few miles north-east of Amiens and they came down at 19:10 (British time)/20:10 (German time).  

 

There were four victories credited to German pilots - 

 

Vzfw Willi Gabriel, Jasta 11, north-east of Marcelcave at 19:10/20:10

Ltn Werner Steinhauser, Jasta 11, Villers Bretonneux at 19:10/20:10

Ltn d R Franz Bachér, Jasta 3, Klein Zillebeke at 19:25/20:25

Ltn d R Paul Strahle, Jasta 57, Houthem - Kemmel at 19:30/20:30

 

Three crews from No 49 Squadron became casualties -

 

Lieut N Braithwaite (Wia) & 2nd-Lieut F P Bellingham (Wia) in DH4 B7649

Lieut F D Nevin (Kia) & 23509 Sergt H Barfoot (Kia) in DH4 D1002

Lieut C G Capel (Wia) & 1/AM J Knight (Wia) in DH4 C6181

 

Graeme

 

 

[Loader]

I once read of a gunner in the RAF who was listed as a ASC man. I wonder if he just volunteered to go along as he might have had some MG training. As you say if no observer or bombing expertise needed then a gunner might be such a man not normally air crew.

[adam1981]

Do you think its reasonable to assume the 49 squadron website is incorrect and the J. Knight recorded is likely to be 223943 John Knight?

[hmsk212]

The Sturtivant & Page book  " The DH4/ DH9 File " also show that on 17th May 1918 in DH9 C6181 Lt CG Capel and 1/Pte J Knight had one Scout OOC and on the day they were both wounded 19th May 1918 they also had a further two Scouts OOC.

Steve

[pierssc]

Adam, the airhistory reference I gave you quotes  a report at the National Archives which states that 223943 1AM J Knight was the injured observer.  He’s the guy you’re looking for, right?  There is a separate reference for him but under K of course, in the personnel section, as well as the report re the aircraft.   I would be inclined to question where the 49 Squadron website got its information from, if you have reason to think there is a discrepancy as to his birthplace.  

Edited 29 May , 2018 by pierssc

[adam1981]

Pierssc, thank you very much for confirming that, it is the 49 squadron website that are in error, I will email them. 

Thank you also every one else. I am a novice to RFC/RAF research.

 

A further matter, not great war I know, is in researching a Flight Lieutenant who served in the 60's and 70's. He was awarded a Queens commendation for valuable service in the air. All I have on him is that taken from the London Gazette. I assume barring an obituary the research opportunity is very limited?