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Remembered Today:

Type 30 Arisaka Bayonet goes to England


Pea Shooter

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 Here a little bit of history that I picked up recently. It is a Type 30 Arisaka bayonet that was sold to England. 

 Great Britain liked the bayonet. So much so, that they copied it in 1907. ( see Maddox pg. 148 )

 

In 1914 as the Great War was building, Japan sold the Brits 150,000 Type 38 carbines and bayonets. The Brits in turn sold more than 128,000 to Russia in 1916. Approximately 20,000 remained and were issued to British troops. That included Home Guard, Infantry Units over seas, Training Units, etc. The blade I have is marked with the Tokyo Arsenal mark ( The four stacked Cannon balls ) and is unblued as they were in 1914.  After the bad earth quake of 1923 that damaged Japan's industrial complex, Tokyo Arsenal moved to Kokura and in 1929, subcontracted with Hikari Seiki Seisakusho Arsenal, ( commonly known as "Tokyo Hourglass" ) and Matshita Kinzoku KK Arsenal ( commonly known as " National Denki" ). 

 

 The pommel is marked R.W.Y. ( for Royal Warwickshire Yeomanry ). The serial number 330 is under R.W.Y. and appears with the regimental designations. No pattern or order to the British serial numbers. It may appear on both sides of the pommel. 2 Regimental group numbers on the grips are probably rack or weapon numbers. No definitive information.

 

It is just interesting how these bayonets and rifles at the time, got around.

 

IMG_0472.jpg

IMG_0473.jpg

IMG_0474.jpg

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Hi PS,

as you clearly are interested in the Arisaka in British service, I thought you may appreciate the following. It combines - Bantams, the 1916 simplified service dress tunic,  Arisaka T97 carbines and P14 field equipment. (Sorry about the resolution copy, I accidentally lost the high resolution copy, but from the soldier on the right it had been possible to confirm his rifle was a T97 not a T30).

Cheers

Ross

berks.jpeg.1918e562ecd76fb2f72e3f3bf1545b54.jpeg

 

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berks4.jpeg.787c281ac61e8030c14f8de1c0837bda.jpeg

 

 

 

 

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Here is a DLI man with an Arisaka rifle.

If you are interested the late Tony Edwards published a nice little study of the Arisaka in British service (Edwards A.O, 2004. "British Secondary Small Arms 1914-19 Part 1: Arisaka Rifles and Carbines". Solo Publications, Kent. ISBN 0-9532952-9-X)

Chri

sarisaka.jpg.141db075524628b3d8ce8ffaf74304a7.jpg

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  • 2 weeks later...

A nice find there! I know very little about these ones, and never realised they had unit markings - although that does make sense!

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  • 9 months later...

Just acquired an image of a member of the London Irish Rifles  (I think) armed with an Arisaka and displaying the bayonet well

 

large.RIRarisaka.jpg.73e976b8d350b9944b21f77efb801744.jpg

 

large.RIRarisakadetail.jpg.d3160aabe5f22f3a613218dbaea318a3.jpg

 

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IIRC the London Irish were issued with Aarisakas in December 1914.

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1 minute ago, squirrel said:

IIRC the London Irish were issued with Aarisakas in December 1914.

Thanks.

I did a bit of searching around and found some pictures of them in Hyde Park where they appear to have Martini Enfield carbines.

I have a dim recollection of a thread some time ago where TonyE identified a number of units who had used Arisakas but I have been unable to locate it.

Chris

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10 hours ago, 4thGordons said:

...I have a dim recollection of a thread some time ago where TonyE identified a number of units who had used Arisakas but I have been unable to locate it.

Chris

 

For you my friend - https://www.greatwarforum.org/topic/134642-british-soldiers-unit-with-arisaka-rifles/ post no. 7!

 

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Very nice. Two from my collection of the bayonet in use with the Yeomanry.  I think we need an Arisaka specific photo thread!

 

 

FB_IMG_1554225137834.jpg

FB_IMG_1554225113469.jpg

Edited by Toby Brayley
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On 24/05/2018 at 00:41, Pea Shooter said:

 Here a little bit of history that I picked up recently. It is a Type 30 Arisaka bayonet that was sold to England. 

 Great Britain liked the bayonet. So much so, that they copied it in 1907. ( see Maddox pg. 148 )

 

In 1914 as the Great War was building, Japan sold the Brits 150,000 Type 38 carbines and bayonets. The Brits in turn sold more than 128,000 to Russia in 1916. Approximately 20,000 remained and were issued to British troops. That included Home Guard, Infantry Units over seas, Training Units, etc. The blade I have is marked with the Tokyo Arsenal mark ( The four stacked Cannon balls ) and is unblued as they were in 1914.  After the bad earth quake of 1923 that damaged Japan's industrial complex, Tokyo Arsenal moved to Kokura and in 1929, subcontracted with Hikari Seiki Seisakusho Arsenal, ( commonly known as "Tokyo Hourglass" ) and Matshita Kinzoku KK Arsenal ( commonly known as " National Denki" ). 

 

 The pommel is marked R.W.Y. ( for Royal Warwickshire Yeomanry ). The serial number 330 is under R.W.Y. and appears with the regimental designations. No pattern or order to the British serial numbers. It may appear on both sides of the pommel. 2 Regimental group numbers on the grips are probably rack or weapon numbers. No definitive information.

 

It is just interesting how these bayonets and rifles at the time, got around.

 

 

 

 

 

Very nice and thanks for sharing. Could the unit marking be to the Royal Wiltshire Yeomanry? Generally speaking anything I have seen marked RWY has always been Royal Wiltshire Yeomanry and I believe it was also used on their shoulder titles. I don't believe the Warwickshire Yeomanry had the title 'Royal' either. A great piece either way!

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Here is an extract from my G Grandads ‘War Diary’, serving with the 5 th Royal Sussex in 1916. He was issued with the Arisaka , but as you will see , not for long !

Regards R.70C26B88-7F6A-4E30-A126-1A1CFF33C33E.jpeg.99143f985faba4f5a35ab80dc0e2371d.jpeg

7540D9C2-54B8-47BC-8688-1AFE898B340F.jpeg

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The above extract is brilliant thank you!  Putting the Remington Bayonet to good use! 

 

Regards 

Toby 

Edited by Toby Brayley
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Glad you liked it.

I came across the diary purely by chance. Clearing out a cupboard at my mums house. The diary was in a box of odds and ends that had come from my grandmothers after she had died in the early  1990 s. My Mum didn’t know it existed.!

Ernie ( my G Gdad)later (1917) transferred to the RE and writes how pleased he was to have passed the Bricklayers proficiency test. It increased his daily pay from 1shilling a day to 1/9d !!

 

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Richard,

 

What year is this extract from granddad’s diary?

He apparently was from Rye, as was my g’dad.

Can you tell me his surname ?

 

Regards,

JMB

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My Dear JMB, His surname was Standen/Coleman.( he was born the wrong side of the blanket. And his mum latter married a Gentleman by the name of Coleman. Though he kept her surname of Standen)

I was born and bred in Rye. 

Small world ain’t it !

Grandads Surname please !

The extract was from 1916.

Edited by RGJDEE
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Richard,

 

Thank you.

The same as mine, but not for publication, if you don’t mind.

Likewise with circumstances of birth, ‘tis indeed a small world!

 

Regards,

JMB

 

 

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  • 11 months later...
On 02/04/2019 at 18:13, Toby Brayley said:

Very nice. Two from my collection of the bayonet in use with the Yeomanry.  I think we need an Arisaka specific photo thread!

 

 

FB_IMG_1554225137834.jpg

 

 

SNAP POST FIVE on this thread

 

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5 hours ago, RaySearching said:

 

Thank you! It's actually the exact same card I have just swapped it with Simon! 

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  • 2 weeks later...
  • 1 month later...

Just got another one -- it is a little burred (the original not just this scan!) but clearly shows Arisakas / Bayonets.

Interesting sling on one of them - appears not to be a British pattern

Cap badges are indistinct but look like the Manchester Regiment to me? I assume a TF battalion as the man second from right (as we lok) appears to have an Imperial Service badge on. So based on TonyE's list linked about possibly the 8th Manchesters.

Chris

ArisakaWeb.jpg.c67a28bfa98268d746aaa02324ee989c.jpg

 

 

Edited by 4thGordons
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  • 2 weeks later...
On 11/05/2020 at 22:41, 4thGordons said:

Just got another one -- it is a little burred (the original not just this scan!) but clearly shows Arisakas / Bayonets.

Interesting sling on one of them - appears not to be a British pattern

Cap badges are indistinct but look like the Manchester Regiment to me? I assume a TF battalion as the man second from right (as we lok) appears to have an Imperial Service badge on. So based on TonyE's list linked about possibly the 8th Manchesters.

Chris

 

I have a Manchester badge in front of me and that looks to be the correct ID, Chris, also the Imperial Service badge.

 

Julian

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  • 5 months later...

For those with an interest in all things ariska, this interesting little 1915 booklet has just popped up....Royal East Kent connection.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1915-JAPANESE-RIFLE-PATTERN-1907-MANUAL-AMENDMENT-MUSKETRY-INFANTRY-HANDBOOK-WW1/402571342070?hash=item5dbb1f30f6:g:F6YAAOSwLw1fuVfV

 

Dave.

 

P.s., I have no connection to the item or seller.

Edited by Dave66
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Dave,

 

I know that this is not the SMLE/P.’07 combination, but this is the first clue that I personally have seen in print that supports the ‘rifle/rack’

number stamp on bayonet pommel because of lack of correct fit.

On the other hand, the Patt. 07 is well-known as a clone of the Arisaka Type 30.............

 

Regards,

JMB

 

 

 

 

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15 minutes ago, JMB1943 said:

Dave,

 

I know that this is not the SMLE/P.’07 combination, but this is the first clue that I personally have seen in print that supports the ‘rifle/rack’

number stamp on bayonet pommel because of lack of correct fit.

On the other hand, the Patt. 07 is well-known as a clone of the Arisaka Type 30.............

 

Regards,

JMB

 

 

 

 

These little booklets are fascinating, hadn’t seen reference to bayonets being paired to a particular rifle before either, interesting.

I hate to think how few of these addendums survived...I was lucky to find one for the P14 but the ariska would be far scarcer.

 

Regards to all,

 

Dave.

 

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