The Canadian Forestry Corps

[Oldleg]

Hoping that someone can help me here. I am trying to find out the location of allied labour corps camps in the area of the forest of Lyons which surrounds the village Lyons La Forêt. We know that they were here as it is written in books published just after the great war but we have know idea where. At least one of the camps was used by the Canadian Foresgtry Corps and I would like to find out a much as I can, where they were based, how many men there were etc.   

[Moonraker]

Canadian Forestry Corps war diaries

 

Moonraker

[Oldleg]

Cheers Moonraker, I have been trawling through the diaries and although there is nothing so far about Lyons La Foret there is some interesting info none the less. I notice on this page the initials C.R.E, what does that man? 

 

[Moonraker]

3 minutes ago, Oldleg said:

... I notice on this page the initials C.R.E, what does that mean? 

 

I was going to pass on this, but Googled, and rather to my surprise, was led to

 

this

 

(Had I been pressed, I might have guessed "Commandant [or Commanding] Royal Engineers".)

 

Moonraker

[Oldleg]

I thought it might be. Lord Lovat, he was commanding officer of the Lovat's Scouts wasn't he? 

[Terry_Reeves]

CRE = Commander Royal Engineers.

 

TR

[Moonraker]

19 minutes ago, Oldleg said:

I thought it might be. Lord Lovat, he was commanding officer of the Lovat's Scouts wasn't he? 

The 14th (though he was referred to as the 16th) Lord Lovat raised the eponymous Scouts in 1899.

2 minutes ago, Terry_Reeves said:

CRE = Commander Royal Engineers.

 

TR

Not my subject really, but are you sure?

 

Wikipedia entry for Chief Royal Engineer

 

Moonraker

[Terry_Reeves]

Absolutely sure Moonraker,  the Wiki entry is quite wrong in this respect and the author needs a kick up his pontoons metaphorically speaking.  The Chief Royal Engineer is never referred to as the CRE.  

 

In WW1 the senior engineer officer was the Engineer-in-Chief. At  army and corps level there were Chief Engineers, and at divisional level Commander Royal Engineers (CREs) who were responsible for the field companies in their respective divisions and also in various posts out of the front line. Originally  they were entitled Commanding Royal Engineers, but that title was changed, I think, early in the war.

 

TR

Edited 22 May , 2018 by Terry_Reeves

[Oldleg]

Was there a British equivalent of the Canadian Forestry Corps? 

[Skipman]

19 minutes ago, Oldleg said:

Was there a British equivalent of the Canadian Forestry Corps? 

 

Others may know different but I don't think so. The Forestry Commission was set up in 1919? one reason being to re-plant the areas that the Canadians had cut down during the war.

 

Mike

[Moonraker]

I don't think there were units with names specifically relating to forestry work, but it may be that some companies from the Royal Engineers and Labour Corps specialised in it

 

In Wiltshire, Canadian forestry companies and Portuguese soldiers were engaged in such work, and possibly German PoWs were too.

 

Moonraker

[Terry_Reeves]

Canadian Forestry Corps history here:

 

https://archive.org/stream/canadianforestry00birduoft#page/n5/mode/2up

 

Their operations in France can be found  in chapter 5 (p 34)

 

TR

 

 

Edited 23 May , 2018 by Terry_Reeves

[Oldleg]

21 hours ago, Terry_Reeves said:

Canadian Forestry Corps history here:

 

https://archive.org/stream/canadianforestry00birduoft#page/n5/mode/2up

 

Their operations in France can be found  in chapter 5 (p 34)

 

TR

 

 

Cheers Terry, I will be looking at this more closely during the weekend. I have had a look at the map and find that our area is earmarked as district 2. I wonder if there is any way of finding nout which Batallions were in that district.  

[Skipman]

There's a small chapter of the Corps in the Canadian Official History

 

The Canadian Forestry Corps (CEF Official History)

 

Canadian forestry units are said to have "helped to defeat the submarine ... more surely than a fleet of ships". So enthusiastic a claim 'might-be bard' to substantiate, but the statement contains a considerable amount of truth. British pre-war timber imported chiefly from Russia, Scandinavia and North America was valued at some forty million pounds sterling each year. The war brought an increased demand for lumber, but, because of U-boat singings, there was a steadily -diminishing merchant fleet to carry it. The prior demands of munitions, food, forage and other essentials upon the depleted shipping made it impossible for Britain to continue to import Canadian timber on a sufficiently large scale to meet her war requirements. It was necessary therefore to begin felling English forests and converting them into lumber. A British inquiry, in January 1916, whether Canada could supply expert timbermen to produce lumber in the United Kingdom was followed a month later by an urgent request from the Secretary of State for the Colonies to the Governor General for 1500 skilled lumbermen. The War Office suggested that Canada might enlist in the C.E.F. a battalion of lumbermen, to be dispatched, to the United Kingdom in small companies. In response to this, appeal the Minister of Militia authorized the formation of the 224th Forestry Battalion, C.E.F. By the end of May close to 1600 all ranks had been sent across the Atlantic and timber operations had begun in Great Britain's historic forests. France too had made certain of her forests available for the production of timber. But the situation remained serious. The shortage of shipping was still acute, and there was not enough skilled labour to produce all the timber required. Again in May, the British Government turned to Canada, this time for an additional "2000 lumbermen with plant". In November 1916 the Army Council asked for 5000 more, and before the end of the year a small Canadian forestry detachment was operating in France. The transfer of skilled Canadian woodsmen across the Atlantic continued throughout the war, and the Armistice found 12,127 Canadian foresters in France and 9967 in England. Canada bore the cost of initial equipment, pay, allowances and pensions, and transportation for the foresters to England, while Great Britain paid for accommodation, rations, maintenance and additional machinery and tools purchased in the United Kingdom. As timber operations expanded, organization kept pace. To provide flexibility in administration Canadian forestry battalions were reorganized into companies of six officers and 164 other ranks. Formation of the Canadian Forestry Corps had been authorized on 7 November 1916, and a forestry directorate was set up at G.H.Q. in France and became effective on 2 April 1917. Brig.-Gen. Alexander McDougall (the original commander of the 224th Forestry Battalion) was appointed G.O.C. Canadian Forestry Corps and Director General (p 499) Of Timber Operations, Great Britain and France. Before the war ended forestry operations in France were spread from the English Channel to the Jura mountains bordering on Switzerland, and from the Belgian to the Spanish frontiers. By September 1917 Sir Douglas Haig was able to report that his armies had become "practically self-supporting" where timber was concerned; between May and October of that year forestry units provided more than three-quarters of a million tons of lumber. It was during this period that a Canadian mill, at La Joux set a record which, in the words of the officer commanding the Jura Group C.F.C., "cannot be obtained by any of the older firms in the Ottawa Valley, under the best civilian organization"-160,494 feet board measure in nineteen hours' running time. Units in Britain managed to fill a sudden and particularly important demand for lumber on 20 March 1918, eleven days ahead of schedule; of a required 40,000 tons, 34,000 had been produced by Canadian foresters. Another task undertaken by Canadian forestry units from the autumn of 1916 onward was the construction of airfields for the Royal Flying Corps. Nine Canadian companies, especially organized for this employment, prepared more than a hundred sites in France and England. In France the work included erecting Nissen huts and hangars and the 'construction of emplacements for anti-aircraft guns. As was the case with : other arms and services, the work of the Canadian forestry units in France was disrupted by the German offensive of March 1918. All' forestry personnel were issued arms, both for their own protection' and for the training of some 800 of their number as potential infantry reinforcements. Of these 800 men, 500 were reallocated to the Canadian Corps early in October. Earlier in the year 314 Russo- Canadians, deemed unsuitable for combat duty in view of the Russian collapse, were transferred to the Forestry Corps. In all the Canadian forestry operations attached labour played an important part. Companies on either side of the Channel employed British and prisoner-of-war labour. Those in France -56 companies when the war ended-used Chinese labour as well. Units in England and Scotland were liberally augmented by Finnish' and Portuguese personnel. At the time of the Armistice 101 Canadian Forestry Companies, with a total strength (including attached personnel) of 31,447, were at work in France and Britain. Forestry operations were continued in France until mid-February 1919 and in Britain until early July. There was cause for pride that 70 per cent of the timber used by the Allied armies on the Western Front had been produced by the Canadian Forestry Corps. The statistics were impressive. Although Britain's consumption of timber had increased with the demands of war, her timber imports had fallen from 11,600,000 tons in 1913 to little more than half that amount in 1916; for 1918 the figure was only two million tons. It was calculated that the shipping space thereby released was sufficient to carry food for 15,000,000 people. To this extent had the Canadian Forestry Corps contributed to the failure of the submarine campaign. (page 500)

Edited 25 May , 2018 by Skipman