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The Great War (1914-1918) Forum

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Neil...

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Hello ive been honored to have been given my great uncles badge he was wearing when he lost his life in nieppe 1918 I am trying to find out what type of badge this is as i have the cap badge but cannot seem to find this one anywhere , what it would of been issued for it looks like a horse shoe Design. Regards and thanks Neil

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It's not a cap badge, nor will it have been what he was wearing when he lost his life. This type of badge is known as a sweetheart brooch, typically given to your mother, fiancé, girlfriend, etc. The horseshoe would have been a symbol of good luck.

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Andrew has given you a good explanation of the purpose of the badge, a design/type often used as a good luck charm as he has said.  One further interesting point is that it bears one of two styles of crown used to depict Queen Victoria’s reign.  Such good luck charms were very popular during the Victorian and Edwardian eras and came to special prominence around the time of the 2nd Anglo/Boer War 1899-1902.  It implies the possibility that Arthur Howes was a long service career soldier who was already a veteran when WW1 began.

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1 hour ago, FROGSMILE said:

Andrew has given you a good explanation of the purpose of the badge, a design/type often used as a good luck charm as he has said.  One further interesting point is that it bears one of two styles of crown used to depict Queen Victoria’s reign.  Such good luck charms were very popular during the Victorian and Edwardian eras and came to special prominence around the time of the 2nd Anglo/Boer War 1899-1902.  It implies the possibility that Arthur Howes was a long service career soldier who was already a veteran when WW1 began.

 

His Hussars number H/4866 suggests enlistment September/October 1909.

(As discussed in a previous thread).

 

Ken

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6 hours ago, Andrew Upton said:

It's not a cap badge, nor will it have been what he was wearing when he lost his life. This type of badge is known as a sweetheart brooch, typically given to your mother, fiancé, girlfriend, etc. The horseshoe would have been a symbol of good luck.

To say that he was not wearing it when he lost his life is very presumptive, insensitive and harsh on the OP, because how can you be so certain? I have my Grandmothers Naval Brigade sweetheart brooch that my Grandfather gave to her. However it is known in the family that they regularly swapped the brooch between themselves so they were always with each other so to speak. I remember my Grandmother telling me that she considered that it saved his life in Gallipoli fighting for the Collingwood Battalion at the 3rd Battle of Krithia when the Collingwoods suffered over 75% casualties.

Also  to make my point, I researched all 13 soldiers of my parish who were killed in the Great War. A hurriedly written list of one of their possessions contain, amongst other personal items, "SH Brooch" which I take to be SweetHeart Brooch.

 

Therefore it’s quite possible that Neil’s Great Uncle had the brooch with him when he died, possibly not wearing it but who knows?

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Thankyou very much for your replys , I was informed it was returned to my great grand parents when his belongings were sent back from the war' I am so proud to own it now as it was literally 100 years since his death I appreciate both opinions it just brings us closer to him emotionally , thankyou all.

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Whatever its provenance, it's a lovely piece and a lovely thing to have.

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I'm quite sure that poor old Andrew Upton did no mean to be snarky.  He was merely disabusing the OP of he idea that the brooch was a capbadge and therefore not a badge under which his forebear served and died in 1918.  Sweetheart broochesare often misinterpreted by those unfamiliar with the armed forces.  They are lovely things, both in concept and in appearance.

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4 hours ago, Lawryleslie said:

it is known in the family that they regularly swapped the brooch between themselves so they were always with each other

what a nice touch. A very interesting point made in this threadabout sweetheart brooches.

Charlie

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6 hours ago, kenf48 said:

 

His Hussars number H/4866 suggests enlistment September/October 1909.

(As discussed in a previous thread).

 

Ken

 

I hadn’t seen the previous thread Ken.  I guess we will never know the circumstances of how he came by the brooch, but it certainly bears a QVC and so is from an old design.

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45 minutes ago, FROGSMILE said:

 

I hadn’t seen the previous thread Ken.  I guess we will never know the circumstances of how he came by the brooch, but it certainly bears a QVC and so is from an old design.

Hi Ken we were advised Arthur had joined between 1904/5 where did you squire the 1909 dates from regards Neil

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11 hours ago, Steven Broomfield said:

Whatever its provenance, it's a lovely piece and a lovely thing to have.

Yes I am honoured to own this thanks Steve. 

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8 hours ago, Neil... said:

Hi Ken we were advised Arthur had joined between 1904/5 where did you squire the 1909 dates from regards Neil

 

Near Number Sampling shows:-

 

Albert Harding H/4801 20 Hussars Smethwick 22/10/09

Louis Marks H/4822 20 Hussars Birmingham 21st October 1909

John Jack H/4821 20 Hussars Birmingham  28th October 1909

Walter Jeffries H/4849  20 Hussars Witney 3rd November 1909 

Terms of enlistment for each of the above seven years with the Colours five years on Reserveon Reserve

 

Vickery H/4960 20 Hussars Dublin 15/11/09

So probably enlisted mid-November 1909, and therefore in service when war declared and his early embarkation to France. You could check in 1911 Census

9 hours ago, FROGSMILE said:

 

I hadn’t seen the previous thread Ken.  I guess we will never know the circumstances of how he came by the brooch, but it certainly bears a QVC and so is from an old design.

 

He was serving with the 1st Devonshire Regiment when killed I guess there was pride and attachment to his original unit, hence the brooch.  Apparently among a cohort from the Cavalry transferred to that Battallion 11 October 1917.

 

Ken

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7 hours ago, kenf48 said:

 

Near Number Sampling shows:-

 

Albert Harding H/4801 20 Hussars Smethwick 22/10/09

Louis Marks H/4822 20 Hussars Birmingham 21st October 1909

John Jack H/4821 20 Hussars Birmingham  28th October 1909

Walter Jeffries H/4849  20 Hussars Witney 3rd November 1909 

Terms of enlistment for each of the above seven years with the Colours five years on Reserveon Reserve

 

Vickery H/4960 20 Hussars Dublin 15/11/09

So probably enlisted mid-November 1909, and therefore in service when war declared and his early embarkation to France. You could check in 1911 Census

 

He was serving with the 1st Devonshire Regiment when killed I guess there was pride and attachment to his original unit, hence the brooch.  Apparently among a cohort from the Cavalry transferred to that Battallion 11 October 1917.

 

Ken

 

I have often thought of the brutal tragedy that so many men who survived the early years of the war were only to die in 1918, especially those who were combed out/volunteered from other Arms.  The infantry was a voracious mincing machine and the casualties in that last, attritional year of the war especially heavy.  Arthur Howes was an example in case.

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14 hours ago, FROGSMILE said:

 

I have often thought of the brutal tragedy that so many men who survived the early years of the war were only to die in 1918, especially those who were combed out/volunteered from other Arms.  The infantry was a voracious mincing machine and the casualties in that last, attritional year of the war especially heavy.  Arthur Howes was an example in case.

Yes very true it is beyond sad that these soldiers survived the early war and had to return, my grandma once told me she remembers Arthur visiting her mums house on his horse in full hussars gear pointing out he did not have a good feeling about his return to France. They really did give us there lives it'  beyond courage. 

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