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Follymatthew

9th Devonshire Battalion

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Follymatthew

Hello all,

At present i am conducting research into the 9th Devon’s on the 1st July 1916. There’s one man that I’m having a particular problem with. The chaps name was Charles Michael Jones 7677. He was also named as Serjeant Michael Jones. Sadly he was Kia.

The problem is I cannot find his age, date of birth, family or date and place of enlistment. 

Any help or ideas would be much appreciated.

Thanks in advance.

Matt

 

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tootrock

His widow was Mrs Frances M. Jones, living at 17 New Street, Andover, Hants.

 

Martin

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tootrock
Posted (edited)

Charles M Jones born 1894 in Wandsworth, son of Henry and Edith Jones

Frances M Kemp born 1889 Andover, Hants, daughter of William and Elizabeth Kemp

Charles M Jones married Frances M Kemp in Wandsworth in the March quarter of 1914.

Enlisted in London in August 1914

This could be him.

 

Martin

Edited by tootrock
Added info

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Follymatthew

Hello Martin,

That was quick and thanks very much. I agree that his widow was Mrs Frances M Jones and very likely to be nee Kemp. So the information you’ve found could well be him.

The only ‘problem’ I have and my knowledge of such things is limited.

His service number was 7677 and it appears from information I found on the web means he enlisted in 1904. Although I could be totally wrong on that one. Thanks again for the information you’ve supplied I’ll certainly work with it.

regards matt

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Dragoon

image.png.d47c1387140d4870a3a1a07e7f045a3c.pngHis soldiers effects, Craig's calculator should work out the enlistment date.

 

Chris 

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clk

Hi Matt,

 

I see that he went overseas with the 1st Bn. Looking at men in that battalion with near numbers who have surviving papers you get...

 

7607 Davey joined 21.1.1904

7638 Dyer joined 1.3.1904

7663 Fuke joined 13.4.1904

7667 Edwards joined 13.4.1904

7677

7716 Reed joined 2.8.1904

7718 Lush joined 6.8.1904

 

Looking at pages 4, 9 and 13 of the hits here it looks like he may have been wounded shortly after going over. Unfortunately, my level of FMP sub doesn't give me access to view newspapers to see what they say. If I could, what I would do is to see if there are any men from his regiment also listed. If there are, and you can find service papers for them, it should help narrow down his likely wounding.

 

Regards

Chris

 

 

 

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Follymatthew

Hello Chris,

Thanks for pointing me in the direction of the gratuity calculator. I have access to ancestry as i’m Researching family members who served in WW1. 

From what I understand:

D62BFFE7-EE46-4131-80B6-03B156402253.png.ce203432fbc5e82f622f53bf8038eda6.png

This is a type 2 war gratuity paid net of full gratuity payment.

I’ve worked out I think correctly that this meant he enlisted in Appx. 1/10/1913 ! I’m not sure if this is correct so will have to check my maths.

regards Matt

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Follymatthew

Hello Chris,

Thanks very much for your reply I don’t have access to FMP unfortunately. But it would certainly appear he was wounded after his embarkation to France on 22/08/1914.

He has two medal card indexes one as a private 7677 1st Battalion and then another as Sargeant in the 9th Battalion.

Thanks for your advice. I have 2 other family members so I may well get fmp access as well. 

One was in the Nelson Battalion RND and the other was in the 7th Royal Fusiliers. 

But it would certainly from his number that he enlisted in 1904 so he must have been born before 1886 appx.

Regards Matt

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Follymatthew
1 hour ago, clk said:

Hi Matt,

 

I see that he went overseas with the 1st Bn. Looking at men in that battalion with near numbers who have surviving papers you get...

 

7607 Davey joined 21.1.1904

7638 Dyer joined 1.3.1904

7663 Fuke joined 13.4.1904

7667 Edwards joined 13.4.1904

7677

7716 Reed joined 2.8.1904

7718 Lush joined 6.8.1904

 

Looking at pages 4, 9 and 13 of the hits here it looks like he may have been wounded shortly after going over. Unfortunately, my level of FMP sub doesn't give me access to view newspapers to see what they say. If I could, what I would do is to see if there are any men from his regiment also listed. If there are, and you can find service papers for them, it should help narrow down his likely wounding.

 

Regards

Chris

 

 

 

Hi Chris,

Sorry to bother you again but where did you source the information about the men who had similar service numbers to the chap I’m researching?

I have to say that’s a very interesting line of investigation. Thanks for the info.

Regards Matt

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clk

Hi Matt,

 

1 hour ago, Follymatthew said:

This is a type 2 war gratuity paid net of full gratuity payment.

I’ve worked out I think correctly that this meant he enlisted in Appx. 1/10/1913

 

The date shouldn't ever work out earlier than August 1914, as the payment was based on eligible (WW1) war service. Using Craig's calculator, I got... 

 

image.png.b0bc51204ac848ce9ee85a5a9577c695.png

 

...which is what you'd expect in your specific case, and doesn't really help in this instance.

 

41 minutes ago, Follymatthew said:

where did you source the information about the men who had similar service numbers to the chap I’m researching?

 

I set up a near number search in FMP. The hits and search criteria I used can be seen here. It's then just a case of ploughing through the 'service record' hits, checking that they are relevant, and extracting the info. Subject to some regiments having quirks in how they issued their numbers, the approach can be useful. The wider the sample size, the better.

 

Regards

Chris

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charlie962
Posted (edited)

Doesn't answer your queqtion but

 

Pte Jones CH 7677 Devonshire Regt wounded Daily CasList 25/1/15 report received 5/12/14.   Perhaps 1st Devons per his 14 Star ? Then perhaps a change of Bn when he had recoverd ?

 

Charlie

Edited by charlie962

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Follymatthew

Once again thanks Chris for your post and correcting my understanding of war gratuities. Now I understand but apologies I’m fairly new to this. Also thanks for info on the link.

 

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Follymatthew

Thank you Charlie I’m sure your correct and all the information I can gather will help. From very old stories within the family apparently he was wounded early in the war.

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Follymatthew

One last question I if you kindly folk don’t mind would it be possible if Charles was 14 years old in 1904 could he have joined the 1st battalion Devonshire as a drummer ‘boy’ and then stayed in the army progressing to a private, then serving 1914 to 1916 and during the war promoted to Sargeant and moving to the 9th Battalion by the time of 1st July 1916. 

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tootrock

If you accept that Charles Michael Jones married Frances M Kemp in 1914, you could send for the Marriage Certificate, which would give details of age and father's name, which could lead to Census entries.

The GRO reference is

Quarter: March

District: Wandsworth

Volume: 1d

Page: 798

 

Martin

 

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TEW

Atkinson has him as;

9th Battalion. Jones, Charles Michael. b London, enlisted London, 7677 Sgt. KIA F&F 1/7/1916

TEW

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Follymatthew
2 hours ago, tootrock said:

If you accept that Charles Michael Jones married Frances M Kemp in 1914, you could send for the Marriage Certificate, which would give details of age and father's name, which could lead to Census entries.

The GRO reference is

Quarter: March

District: Wandsworth

Volume: 1d

Page: 798

 

Martin

 

Thank you Martin great idea. I’ll do exactly that. Looking this morning quite a few sources do say his widow was Frances M Jones so I think you’re right.

many thanks regards Matt

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