bierast Posted 13 May , 2018 Share Posted 13 May , 2018 (edited) This seems like a long shot, but I thought I might as well ask. This is a detail from a photo of Saxon IR 182 (212.ID) taking ship for the Ukraine at the captured Rumanian port of Constanza on the Black Sea in May 1918. I have been unable to identify it as any known German vessel with the number '35'. It could of course be Austro-Hungarian or maybe even Bulgarian - or perhaps a captured enemy vessel of some sort. Does anyone recognise it? Edited 13 May , 2018 by bierast Spelling Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PJS Posted 13 May , 2018 Share Posted 13 May , 2018 If nobody can identify it you could try posting your photo to a maritime web site such as this one: https://www.maritimequest.com/mystery_ships/mystery_ships_page_1.htm The contact page is here: https://www.maritimequest.com/site_info_pages/contact_the_webmaster.htm Hope this is of some help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sotonmate Posted 13 May , 2018 Share Posted 13 May , 2018 The stern flag looks like a German one, but too small to be sure. May even be a sea flag of the State of Lower Saxony ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bierast Posted 13 May , 2018 Author Share Posted 13 May , 2018 3 hours ago, PJS said: If nobody can identify it you could try posting your photo to a maritime web site such as this one: https://www.maritimequest.com/mystery_ships/mystery_ships_page_1.htm The contact page is here: https://www.maritimequest.com/site_info_pages/contact_the_webmaster.htm Thankyou, I may try it. 1 hour ago, sotonmate said: The stern flag looks like a German one, but too small to be sure. May even be a sea flag of the State of Lower Saxony ! I'm fairly certain it's a German naval flag. Having just compared some reference images, I'm convinced that it's not an Austro-Hungarian one at any rate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wexflyer Posted 14 May , 2018 Share Posted 14 May , 2018 Looks like a merchant ship to me, rather than a warship. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malcolm12hl Posted 14 May , 2018 Share Posted 14 May , 2018 She is certainly a merchant ship, but there is nothing distinctive about her to aid with identification save the number 35 painted on the hull amidships. I think she is flying the Imperial German Naval Ensign, but the number might not be of German origin. The Imperial Russian Navy requisitioned most of the merchant shipping trapped in the Black Sea when Turkey entered the war, giving each vessel an identifying number. Most of these ships fell into German hands in 1918, and it is possible that she is an ex-Russian transport and that her new masters have not bothered to paint over the number. You might try tracking down someone with specialist knowledge of the Russian Navy to see which ship became their Transport #35. By the way, the ship in the photo is almost certainly in the process of raising anchor - you can see steam drifting aft from the bow, which will have come from the steam-powered windlass. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bierast Posted 14 May , 2018 Author Share Posted 14 May , 2018 5 hours ago, Malcolm12hl said: She is certainly a merchant ship, but there is nothing distinctive about her to aid with identification save the number 35 painted on the hull amidships. I think she is flying the Imperial German Naval Ensign, but the number might not be of German origin. The Imperial Russian Navy requisitioned most of the merchant shipping trapped in the Black Sea when Turkey entered the war, giving each vessel an identifying number. Most of these ships fell into German hands in 1918, and it is possible that she is an ex-Russian transport and that her new masters have not bothered to paint over the number. You might try tracking down someone with specialist knowledge of the Russian Navy to see which ship became their Transport #35. By the way, the ship in the photo is almost certainly in the process of raising anchor - you can see steam drifting aft from the bow, which will have come from the steam-powered windlass. Thankyou. That all sounds eminently plausible and consistent with the scene here. For interest here is the whole photo; 212.ID, the only Saxon division in Rumania, was gradually transported from Constanza to the Ukraine (landing at Odessa and Nikolaev / Mykolaiv) around May 1918. The division was responsible for maintaining order (largely defending the ethnic German population and every other community who had anything worth stealing from the depredations of Bolsheviks and Ukrainian anarchists) in the Crimea and a large chunk of adjoining territory until the end of the war. Some of them (IR 415 and FAR 279) remained stuck in the Ukraine until March 1919, when they were transported back to Hamburg under Entente supervision. The ship on the left is the General, which transported part of the division from Constanza to Nikolaev / Mykolaiv. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreyC Posted 15 May , 2018 Share Posted 15 May , 2018 (edited) Hi, nice photo. The GENERAL was a comparatively new ship of 1910, built in Hamburg and operated by the German East Africa Shipping Comp. It was equipped with a wireless and in 1917 her master was a captain Fiedler. Maybe he was still her captain during the time in Constanza. GreyC Edited 15 May , 2018 by GreyC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lörscher Posted 15 May , 2018 Share Posted 15 May , 2018 Hello, an ex Russian transport also was my first thought, seeing that number on the side of the ship. Number style also more Russian than German. If ex Transport No. 35, it should be: KAZAN built 1890 at Wood, Skinner & Co., Newcastle (yard no. 21) as Russian KAZAN 622 g.r.t. / 967 ts / 985 tdw (60,96 metres long / 9,14 metres wide) became Transport No. 35 on 10.03.1915 14.04.1918 was captured by German sub UC 23 off Sevastopol, renamed KASAK 23.12.1918 White Forces and renamed KAZAN 1920 laid up at Istanbul 1921 french MERSINE 1924 turk GAZI 1934 turk ERMEK 1959 broken up, Istanbul Have no pic or drawing of that vessel, but others might have :-) Oliver Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JOVE23 Posted 15 May , 2018 Share Posted 15 May , 2018 Hello, Not to throw a wrench into all this sleuthing but the 35 may not be Russian in origin. Here is the German submarine U-35 from World War II, showing basically the exact same script as our merchant ship above. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lörscher Posted 15 May , 2018 Share Posted 15 May , 2018 (edited) Ah, sorry, I was thinking about this numbering style to be Russian, because of this here (slightly off topic): https://www.worldwarphotos.info/gallery/germany/tanks-2-3/tiger/tiger-113-eastern-front/ Thought that they said these is russian style, but o.k. :-) But apart from that, a friend of mine was able to identify that ship positively! Ship had slightly different measurements: 777gt 425nt 1050tdw L=61,2m B=9,1m D=4,17m and some details of movements: steamer send to Odessa as a prize 18.04.1918: left Odessa for Constanza for further inspections 02.05.1918: left Constanza for İstanbul 03.05.1918: arrived at İstanbul and commissioned as tranport .05.1918: KASAK Imperial German Navy-transport Of course ex No. 35 might have gone back to Constanta in late May 1918 ... Oliver Edited 15 May , 2018 by Lörscher forgot some words Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bierast Posted 15 May , 2018 Author Share Posted 15 May , 2018 15 hours ago, GreyC said: nice photo. The GENERAL was a comparatively new ship of 1910, built in Hamburg and operated by the German East Africa Shipping Comp. It was equipped with a wireless and in 1917 her master was a captain Fiedler. Maybe he was still her captain during the time in Constanza. Thankyou - I would expect so. 4 hours ago, Lörscher said: But apart from that, a friend of mine was able to identify that ship positively! Ship had slightly different measurements: 777gt 425nt 1050tdw L=61,2m B=9,1m D=4,17m and some details of movements: steamer send to Odessa as a prize 18.04.1918: left Odessa for Constanza for further inspections 02.05.1918: left Constanza for İstanbul 03.05.1918: arrived at İstanbul and commissioned as tranport .05.1918: KASAK Imperial German Navy-transport Of course ex No. 35 might have gone back to Constanta in late May 1918 ... Excellent - thankyou for satisfying my curiosity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ralph Currell Posted 16 May , 2018 Share Posted 16 May , 2018 9 hours ago, Lörscher said: KAZAN built 1890 at Wood, Skinner & Co., Newcastle (yard no. 21) as Russian KAZAN 622 g.r.t. / 967 ts / 985 tdw (60,96 metres long / 9,14 metres wide) became Transport No. 35 on 10.03.1915 14.04.1918 was captured by German sub UC 23 off Sevastopol, renamed KASAK 23.12.1918 White Forces and renamed KAZAN This ship appears in Lloyd's Register as the Cossack, at least until 1918. Perhaps the difference in names is due to translation to/from the Russian script? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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