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laughton

There is no Row I in a CWGC Cemetery

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laughton

I was trying to locate a particular grave marker location in the Cabaret-Rouge British Cemetery to see if it was feasible to use a "Special Memorial C - Buried near this spot" for graves that were in separate rows (see this topic 255849). To accomplish that, without going to the cemetery, I was looking at the site schematic as compared to Google Earth. Something did not add up with the rows until I checked a number of the other plots in this cemetery and then in other cemeteries.

 

It appears as if there is no ROW I in any of the cemeteries. They jump from ROW H to ROW J. In all the documents I have looked at I never noticed this before. I tried a number of searches to see if this was explained somewhere, on this site or elsewhere, but I found nothing.

 

I can see why they might (may have) done this, as a search for "ROW I" (eye) on the CWGC returns only references for "ROW 1" (one).

 

Is this common knowledge and I have just been "asleep at the wheel" all this time?

 

Richard

 

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Marilyne

I honestly never paid attention to that before... interesting... 

Now I'll count rows every time I'm in another cemetery... 

 

M.

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imaginatian

I've noticed this in some cemeteries, but it's not true of all of them, so always check!  There are also some that do and don't!

  • Euston Road Cemetery on the Somme, to which I have a personal link, has no row I in the original plot 1, going from H to J.  However it does have row I's in plots 2 - 5 which were added a few years later.
  • Dernancourt Communal Cemetery Extension, also on the Somme, has no row I in plot 3 but does in plots 6, 8 and 10.
  • Ypres Reservoir Cemetery has a row I (the last row) in plot 1.  However plot 9 does not, again going from H to J.

I can understand why having a row I could be confusing, especially when using Roman numerals to identify plots.  Plot 1, row I, grave 1 would be "I. I. 1."  Perhaps this explains the missing row I in many cemeteries?

 

Note that sometimes rows are "missing" for a good reason.  Going back to Euston Road Cemetery there are no rows J, K, L or M in plots 2 and 5.  These are to make space for the Stone of Remembrance and the shelter building respectively.

 

Regards,

 

Ian

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voltaire60

Latin alphabet????   There is no "I" (It duplicates as "J")

 

Classical Latin alphabet[edit]

After the Roman conquest of Greece in the 1st century BC, Latin adopted the Greek letters 〈Y〉 and 〈Z〉 (or readopted, in the latter case) to write Greek loanwords, placing them at the end of the alphabet. An attempt by the emperor Claudius to introduce three additional letters did not last. Thus it was during the classical Latinperiod that the Latin alphabet contained 23 letters:

Classical Latin alphabet
Letter A B C D E F G H I K L M N O P Q R S T V X Y Z
Latin name (majus) á é ef el em en ó q er es ix ꟾ graeca zéta
Latin name ā ē ef ī el em en ō er es ū ix ī Graeca zēta
Latin pronunciation (IPA) beː keː deː ɛf ɡeː haː kaː ɛl ɛm ɛn peː kuː ɛr ɛs teː iks iː ˈɡraɪka ˈdzeːta
Edited by voltaire60

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IPT

Row I comes before row E, except after row C.

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BillyH

It might be a bad comparison, but sports stadiums often skip from row  'H' to 'J'

 

BillyH.

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Jim Strawbridge

Reminds me of an episode if N.C.I.S. where Jimmy is tasked to work out why there is no letter I in , if I remember correctly, the street layout for Washington. It turns out that "in olden days" the letter I and the letter J were written so similar that they often were confused. So they left the letter I out.

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Heid the Ba
On ‎07‎/‎05‎/‎2018 at 18:59, IPT said:

Row I comes before row E, except after row C.

Oh bravo!

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WW1 Obsessed

probably the same as this: Im a design engineer, so when doing technical drawings that annotate components, we always skip "I". This is simply as "I" and lower case "L" (l) are identical, so it saves confusion. 

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gem22

I wonder how many people on their first trip to Ieper have read the road signs as a lower case L rather than an upper case I. In which case Ieper becomes Leper !!

 

Garth 

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AOK4
2 hours ago, Jim Strawbridge said:

Reminds me of an episode if N.C.I.S. where Jimmy is tasked to work out why there is no letter I in , if I remember correctly, the street layout for Washington. It turns out that "in olden days" the letter I and the letter J were written so similar that they often were confused. So they left the letter I out.

 

That is the reason indeed most probably. There's only a plot I in the German cemetery of Menen as well as "I" and "J" were considered the same letter (just as "U" and "V" in Roman times).

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voltaire60
48 minutes ago, AOK4 said:

 

That is the reason indeed most probably. There's only a plot I in the German cemetery of Menen as well as "I" and "J" were considered the same letter (just as "U" and "V" in Roman times).

 

yes, classic Latin alphabet- I and J are the same.

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Marilyne

AS I said... every cemetery we passed last week on the Yzer I checked the rows... haven't seen a single row "India" ... 

I'll check again next week in Oosterbeek... 

 

M.

Edited by Marilyne

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Ron Clifton

It's not just cemeteries which avoid using "I". You will often find that "JR" rather that "IR" is used in some German records to mean "Infanterie-Regiment". And the Special Companies RE (the gas troops) do not have an "I" Company either. Nor did the Air-Line and Cable Companies of the original British HQ Signal Companies have an "I" Section.

 

Ron

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Gareth Davies

But there was an I Bn in the Tank Corps.

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AOK4
1 hour ago, Ron Clifton said:

It's not just cemeteries which avoid using "I". You will often find that "JR" rather that "IR" is used in some German records to mean "Infanterie-Regiment". And the Special Companies RE (the gas troops) do not have an "I" Company either. Nor did the Air-Line and Cable Companies of the original British HQ Signal Companies have an "I" Section.

 

Ron

 

As I told before, that's just because JR is completely the same as IR, it's just a matter of writing.

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GreyC

Have to agree.

That´s why you find the following note in old German encyclopedias: c=k, i=j. What you don´t find under c or i look it up under k or j.

GreyC

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laughton

Just noticed today there is a ROW "I" in PLOT 1 and PLOT 2 of the Adanac Military Cemetery but not in any of the other plots.

 

The CWGC says that all of ADANAC was created post war with concentrations from the Canadian battlefields and a few local cemeteries, mainly around Pys. Unfortunately Adanac is missing a lot of their concentration reports, many from Plot 1.

 

CemeteryPlan.ashx?id=18300

 

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