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Remembered Today:

Allied PoW


themonsstar

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Does  anyone know how many allied PoWs were captured at Gallipoli and are there any lists for them

 

Thank you for your time.

 

Roy

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Cheers Charlie

 

I was looking for the hole number of PoWs captured.

 

Thank you for the link

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There are some statistics on page 329, although difficult to read as the page needs to be rotated.

Statistics of the Military Effort of the British Empire during the Great War, 1914-1920 

https://archive.org/stream/statisticsofmili00grea#page/329/mode/1up

 

There appear to be very few. I think this was because most potential prisoners were killed immediately, and never became POWs.

 

Cheers

Maureen

 

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1 hour ago, Maureene said:

most potential prisoners were killed immediately

A selected few (for reasons I don't know) were kept alive and ended up in Turkish PoW camps. But not for the majority.

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Dear Roy,

 

There are some lists available. In 2009, Turkish General Staff published testimonies, letters and lists of Allied soldiers captured during the campaign, in a book of two volumes.

 

These lists are annoyingly complicated and some names are missing. As a result of that, my source may not reflect the exact number of POWs. Moreover, there are some horrible typos. Some of the names can be difficult to understand. This is because lists are transcribed/translated mostly from handwritten documents in Old Turkish (or English).

 

IMG_5008.JPG.dbddda1e8e45150ea86fbd689f25de1b.JPGIMG_5012.JPG.51f349007149837f956b60e59c56aff4.JPGIMG_5013.JPG.c1d396fc88846f2e7c93c8953d255744.JPGIMG_5014.JPG.a6ec82766a734aca6f5a7297863b7909.JPGIMG_5016.JPG.cf057872f09e1c2e3e8dbdb4dd70cff4.JPGIMG_5043.JPG.0f72813f1b6437751ad45b4c3048c876.JPGIMG_5042.JPG.3f581639d6d7bb869f0bde28d25747ef.JPGIMG_5041.JPG.aec9c6a798ecb5e98c71e57507cd3fcb.JPGIMG_5040.JPG.b68107fb11879e36211526dc46ad6dad.JPGIMG_5017.JPGIMG_5018.JPGIMG_5038.JPG.5789733b186b96c36571a567e5265c27.JPGIMG_5037.JPG.7a08f1495f542bd04eb4bb4855fa1e27.JPGIMG_5036.JPG.8ba4881dd3cfbba988411e8e022571f7.JPGIMG_5034.JPG.0e308c2874e0c4bcdeda011fa6dd37d9.JPGIMG_5032.JPG.e49883f18f8cb4cd49adad2b333f308c.JPGIMG_5031.JPG.e76606f72e70ee418aa08df65e86a523.JPGIMG_5030.JPG.e84e054f03d222e6169581a3d327d4e9.JPGIMG_5028.JPG.3a4fc879ebe6e9f0cf0d7b9f5bb10c78.JPGIMG_5027.JPG.73d613e27a2dab1e63aad0e4b07e2eac.JPGIMG_5026.JPG.0e8496820dfdffbf1a133c2138307a80.JPGIMG_5023.JPGIMG_5025.JPG.733c0fd1ce1c7e928fcfc77c299fcb1f.JPGIMG_5022.JPGIMG_5020.JPG.246f4f26f8a7f22376d411b99ec59944.JPGIMG_5019.JPG

 

 

Another, simpler version: (Some names may be missing)

IMG_4997-499.jpg.3f43e0610cad7e2c2f7b486e6e02c727.jpg

IMG_5001-503.jpg.d0e615f370509cddc2c93d16e14e2f82.jpg

IMG_5004-506.jpg.a164ce69675013470922d57acc3a5787.jpg

IMG_5049-550.thumb.jpg.cc5a9fb8c498b2f22bf59bb858835a95.jpg

IMG_5051-504.jpg.5440a2af22705a7ace250b93caedd22f.jpgIMG_5046-5047-horz.jpg.6a418e79aefa268afcfd47dfdcf649e8.jpg

IMG_5051-504.jpg.5440a2af22705a7ace250b93caedd22f.jpg

 

Source:
IMG_5044.JPG.d7de331bc8c5fdab75c84895f8034eff.JPG

 

And figures from official source that suggested before in post #4. 

 

aaa00.jpg.9c30148e2dae06b4b6ff93dcd26083e4.jpg

aaa4.jpg.4b80a7f5a4993891bfc306c4804df4ff.jpg

aaa2.jpg.9d01bdc48d026ef0af982dea7dd75a60.jpg

aaa3.jpg.f197293a28b47160e5c32bbb7d7329c6.jpg

aaa.jpg.386c37f3dfcf9472ffba5dd0fe36892b.jpg

bbb.jpg.3590a41783640f77e905f939fb828ca0.jpg

 

 

Edited by emrezmen
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Well done Emrezmen for finding those detailed Rolls.  By taking a couple of names off them and comparing to the ICRC database I see there are listings in the range R5531-R5542 which are probably all Gallipoli men. Again around R5900 where their place of capture is given. Not easy to tie up due to mis-spelling and ICRC misfiling but looks practical to try and compile an fairly accurate list of these depressingly small numbers.

 

Just taking a random example from the long list above:

Mathew Lennon, 6th Bn R Dublin Fusiliers, died 29/11/15 ( source SDGW): -(died as a PoW per Casualty Lists)

 

 

in the above long list:5aeeea0d5cb6f_GallipoliPoWLennonM1.JPG.cb0d7193d091f0096bf2bf514717f7cd.JPG

but not on the short list ?

 

 

on ICRC: as captured Anafarta 12/8/15 and died 29/11/16 R6429 (also on list R5542 as Leunon)     

             5aeeeb31db9bc_GallipoliPoWLennonM2.JPG.6ace06426e22a8d55de65bcbbcdb2a27.JPG

 

Charlie

 

edit. Checking back the other way, Grimes CW, Cpl 15/Norfolks on  R6429 above is on long listing above as

          5aeeee9358f74_GallipoliPoWGrimesCW1.JPG.cee7b3670c72448ada5f81071cb45fc6.JPG

but I couldn't see him on short listing?

 

He is on SDGW as William charles Grimes, 322, 1/5 Norfolks, died 12/9/15

 

It would be interesting to know what documents the 'long listing' in the 2009 Turkish General Staff publication was compiled from. What are the reference numbers in the 'short listing' ?

     

Edited by charlie962
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16 hours ago, charlie962 said:

 

in the above long list:5aeeea0d5cb6f_GallipoliPoWLennonM1.JPG.cb0d7193d091f0096bf2bf514717f7cd.JPG

but not on the short list ?

 

edit. Checking back the other way, Grimes CW, Cpl 15/Norfolks on  R6429 above is on long listing above as

          5aeeee9358f74_GallipoliPoWGrimesCW1.JPG.cee7b3670c72448ada5f81071cb45fc6.JPG

but I couldn't see him on short listing?

 

It would be interesting to know what documents the 'long listing' in the 2009 Turkish General Staff publication was compiled from. What are the reference numbers in the 'short listing' ?

 

The short list contains only the names of those who have statements in the book. It's kinda "Table of Contents" part and those numbers are just page numbers. Sorry for not mentioning about that.

 

The detailed list was compiled from documents held in ATASE (Askerî Tarih ve Stratejik Etüt Başkanlığı/Directorate of Military History and Strategic Studies) Archives at Ankara. Originally they're all Old Turkish.

 

An example from original Old Turkish lists:

 

IMG_5060.JPG.5eaf358fb0798f0ed016a21bb84e4e04.JPG

 

And a little bit of reference list for prisoner statements:

 

IMG_5063.JPG.6b74fa0a6aa074c4ccdc68d02da5803a.JPG


 

 

 

 

Edited by emrezmen
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I haven’t read this book but have read the thesis on which it is based. Worth tracking down.

Kismet: the story of the Gallipoli prisoners of war by Jennifer Lawless.

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Thank you all who have contributed to the post.

Here some of the British Pow Index  from the Documents and one of the statements this one is from Maj Herbert Alfred  Brett 4th Bn Worcestershire Regiment.

 

 

PoW Index 2.JPG

PoW Index 3.JPG

PoW Index 4.JPG

PoW Index 5.JPG

PoW Index 6.JPG

PoW Index 7.JPG

PoW Index 8.JPG

PoW Index 9.JPG

PoW Index 10.JPG

PoW Index 11.JPG

PoW Index 12.JPG

PoW Index 13.JPG

PoW Index 14.JPG

PoW Index 15.JPG

Pow Index.JPG

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  • 2 years later...

Below is a partial transcript taken from ICRC records, recorded on six sheets, folios R6411 to R6416 inclusive.

There are 85 men listed in total, 25 of whom are soldiers, and the remaining 60 are sailors.

 

Below are those identified as soldiers. The data has been recorded in a way that it can be copied into a spreadsheet, and delineated from its comma separated value format.

 

9 février 1916
français au camp de Bilémédik Pouzanti

 

 

Folio,Nom,Prénoms,Né en,Régiment Compagnie,Numéro de matricule
R6411,AMELIE,Georges,NULL,1er Zouave,NULL
R6411,BARRIER,Victor,1881,1er Rgt. génie 4/14,NULL
R6411,BIGEARD,Jean,1883,3.Rgt.Colonial.12.Comp.,NULL
R6411,BILLON,Paul,NULL,6.Rgt.Colonial mixte section mitrailleuse,22 AC 5351
R6412,BOURNERIE,Henri,NULL,175ème Infanterie.6.Comp,1274,Caporal
R6412,COUDERC,Joseph,1883,6.Rgt.Colonial mixte section mitrailleuse,NULL
R6412,DOMENGES,Pierre,NULL,7.col.6ème Compagnie,9175
R6412,DREAU,François,1881,1er Rgt. génie 4/14,NULL
R6412,GIACOMONI,Pascal,NULL,4ème Col.Mixte 2ème.Bat,52137
R6413,GONDARD,Marius,NULL,3.Rgt.Colonial.12.Comp.,61 C 8655
R6413,KAMARA,Daouda,NULL,7ème Col.12ème Comp.,11772
R6413,LAJUNCOMME,Julien,NULL,175ème Rgt.6ème Comp.,862
R6414,MAMADOU,Yanogo,NULL,6ème Rgt.Col.12ème Comp.,16459
R6414,MARLAIX,Léon,1885,1er Rgt. Génie 4/14,NULL
R6414,MARTIN,Henri Michel,1886,175ème de ligne 2.Bat.,NULL
R6414,MICHEL,Antoine,NULL,4ème Colonial 7.,4 I.C. 0125
R6414,MOUSSA SAA,Birité Birité,NULL,6ème colo.mixte 3ème bat,16903
R6414,PASTOR,Jean,NULL,Lég.étrangère 3.Comp.,16673
R6415,PERRIN,Louis,1893,4ème Zouave 26ème Comp.,NULL
R6415,PLANQUET,Henri,1884,176ème Infant.4ème Comp.,NULL
R6415,PREVE,Maurice,NULL,175ème Rgt.1ère Comp.,21682
R6415,TROUILLET,Georges,1890,2ème maître pilote Aviateur,NULL
R6415,VASSALI,Thomas,NULL,2ème Rgt.Légion Etrang.,19775
R6416,VIALAT,Maurice,NULL,12ème Rgt.Col.12ème Comp.,41c 9469
R6416,VICTOR,Emile,NULL,1er Rgt. Génie 4/14,NULL
 

https://grandeguerre.icrc.org/en/List/1050046/732/6411/

 

 

 

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I have had a go at trying to reconcile them with the book from 2009

 

Folio,Nom,Prénoms,Né en,Régiment Compagnie,Numéro de matricule,Book pages
R6411,AMELIE,Georges,NULL,1er Zouave,NULL,95-106

R6412,BOURNERIE,Henri,NULL,175ème Infanterie.6.Comp,1274,82-88
R6412,COUDERC,Joseph,1883,6.Rgt.Colonial mixte section mitrailleuse,NULL,126-130
R6412,DOMENGES,Pierre,NULL,7.col.6ème Compagnie,9175,159-162

R6412,GIACOMONI,Pascal,NULL,4ème Col.Mixte 2ème.Bat,52137,107-111
R6413,LAJUNCOMME,Julien,NULL,175ème Rgt.6ème Comp.,862,131-135

R6414,MICHEL,Antoine,NULL,4ème Colonial 7.,0125,150-154

R6415,PLANQUET,Henri,1884,176ème Infant.4ème Comp.,NULL,76-81
R6415,PREVE,Maurice,NULL,175ème Rgt.1ère Comp.,21682,141-144

R6415,VASSALI,Thomas,NULL,2ème Rgt.Légion Etrang.,19775,170-172
 

Title Prisoners of war at the Çanakkale Battles: testimonies and letters 

            Tr: Çanakkale Muharebeleri'nin esirleri : ifadeler ve mektuplar

Authors  Ahmet Tetik, Yusuf Serdar Demirtaş, Sema Demirtaş

Publisher Genelkurmay Basım Evi, 2009
   
Length 1414 pages

 

In addition, I believe have also found capture dates for Pascal GIACOMONI & Henri PLANQUET from Emrezmen's transcriptions above.

 

Folio,Nom,Prénoms,Né en,Régiment Compagnie,Numéro de matricule,Capture
R6411,BARRIER,Victor,1881,1er Rgt. génie 4/14,NULL,09-May-1915
R6411,BIGEARD,Jean,1883,3.Rgt.Colonial.12.Comp.,NULL,09-May-1915
R6412,DREAU,François,1881,1er Rgt. génie 4/14,NULL,09-May-1915
R6412,GIACOMONI,Pascal,NULL,4ème Col.Mixte 2ème.Bat,52137,23-Mar-1915
R6413,GONDARD,Marius,NULL,3.Rgt.Colonial.12.Comp.,61 C 8655,09-May-1915    
R6414,MAMADOU,Yanogo,NULL,6ème Rgt.Col.12ème Comp.,16459,09-May-1915    
R6414,MARTIN,Henri Michel,1886,175ème de ligne 2.Bat.,NULL,09-May-1915
R6415,PLANQUET,Henri,1884,176ème Infant.4ème Comp.,NULL,18-Jul-1915
R6416,VICTOR,Emile,NULL,1er Rgt. Génie 4/14,NULL,09-May-1915


 

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Transcription of the rest of the ICRC list, all sailors:

9 février 1916
français au camp de Bilémédik Pouzanti

Folio,Nom,Prénoms,Né en,Vaisseau,Numéro de matricule
R6411,AGNERAY,Victor,NULL,croiseur Dupleix,1710 C
R6411,BIAGGINI,Louis,NULL,croiseur Dupleix,6530 M
R6412,DEMOY,Laurent,NULL,croiseur Dupleix,24086 S.B.
R6413,GOAVEC,Hector,NULL,croiseur Dupleix,95016 2
R6413,LEGENDRE,Richard,NULL,croiseur Dupleix,33647 L
R6414,MERETTE,Adolphe,NULL,croiseur Dupleix,1179 BP
R6415,PERIOU,Guillaume,NULL,croiseur Dupleix,36194 L
R6415,PETIT,Louis,NULL,croiseur Dupleix,34293 L
R6415,RIMA,Eugène,NULL,croiseur Dupleix,7529 PP
R6411,ARTAUD,Eugène,1884,Mariotte (sous-marin),NULL
R6411,ARZUR,Jean,1884,Mariotte (sous-marin),NULL
R6411,AUSTRIC,François,1892,Mariotte (sous-marin),NULL
R6411,BLEUMEN,Guillaume,1887,Mariotte (sous-marin),NULL
R6412,CORRE,Alexis,NULL,Mariotte (sous-marin),5402
R6412,DUTRIEU,Vincent,NULL,Mariotte (sous-marin),NULL
R6412,FOURNIER,Charles,NULL,Mariotte (sous-marin),2163
R6413,GOAZDUF,René,NULL,Mariotte (sous-marin),11936
R6413,GOULIN,Georges,NULL,Mariotte (sous-marin),4405
R6413,GUIBERT,Michel,NULL,Mariotte (sous-marin),10589
R6413,GUILLARD,Jules,1891,Mariotte (sous-marin),NULL
R6413,JANNIN,Adolphe,NULL,Mariotte (sous-marin),50130
R6413,LAGUADEC,Jean,NULL,Mariotte (sous-marin),6090
R6413,LEDUN,Charles,1891,Mariotte (sous-marin),NULL
R6413,LELEU,Raymond,NULL,Mariotte (sous-marin),44822
R6414,LELIAS,Louis,1886,Mariotte (sous-marin),NULL
R6414,LEPORT,Ernest,1884,Mariotte (sous-marin),NULL
R6414,MENISSIER,Julien,NULL,Mariotte (sous-marin),10589
R6414,PAPON,Georges,NULL,Mariotte (sous-marin),1306
R6415,PRIOL,----,NULL,Mariotte (sous-marin),NULL
R6415,REYNAUD,Henri,1893,Mariotte (sous-marin),NULL
R6415,SAILLARD,Gaston,NULL,Mariotte (sous-marin),22478
R6415,TREBOUTA,Yves,NULL,Mariotte (sous-marin),50578
R6415,VAUTIER,Victor,NULL,Mariotte (sous-marin),2099
R6415,VERINNES,Maurice,NULL,Mariotte (sous-marin),NULL
R6416,VIGOT,Gratien,1889,Mariotte (sous-marin),NULL
R6412,DI MAURO,François,NULL,Saphir (sous-marin),6965 M
R6411,ALAZET,François,NULL,Turquoise (sous-marin),NULL
R6411,AZEMA,Georges,NULL,Turquoise (sous-marin),NULL
R6411,BARDIN,Louis,NULL,Turquoise (sous-marin),NULL
R6411,BEAUVOIR,Jean,NULL,Turquoise (sous-marin),NULL
R6411,BECQUE,Marcel,NULL,Turquoise (sous-marin),NULL
R6411,BONNET,Eugène,NULL,Turquoise (sous-marin),NULL
R6412,CARAIN,Yves,NULL,Turquoise (sous-marin),NULL
R6412,DARBERA,Paul,NULL,Turquoise (sous-marin),NULL
R6412,EUDES,----,NULL,Turquoise (sous-marin),NULL
R6412,GANDEMER,Eugène,NULL,Turquoise (sous-marin),NULL
R6412,GOAVEC,François,NULL,Turquoise (sous-marin),NULL
R6413,KERLO,François,NULL,Turquoise (sous-marin),NULL
R6413,LABROUCHE,René,NULL,Turquoise (sous-marin),NULL
R6413,LARROUY,Paul,NULL,Turquoise (sous-marin),NULL
R6413,LE BON,----,NULL,Turquoise (sous-marin),NULL
R6414,LE PARC,Joseph,NULL,Turquoise (sous-marin),NULL
R6414,LE QUERREC,François,NULL,Turquoise (sous-marin),NULL
R6414,LE ROLLAND,Valentin,NULL,Turquoise (sous-marin),NULL
R6414,MAUBOURGUET,Pierre,NULL,Turquoise (sous-marin),NULL
R6414,MOUCHET,Paul,NULL,Turquoise (sous-marin),NULL
R6415,PELEGRIN,Louis,NULL,Turquoise (sous-marin),NULL
R6415,REBOUL,Léandre,NULL,Turquoise (sous-marin),NULL
R6415,TESTAUD,Alcide,NULL,Turquoise (sous-marin),NULL
R6416,WATTELIER,Marcel,NULL,Turquoise (sous-marin),NULL
 

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A quick attempt to reconcile some of those sailors with the book from 2009

 

Folio,Nom,Prénoms,Né en,Vaisseau,Numéro de matricule,Pages
R6412,DARBERA,Paul,NULL,Turquoise (sous-marin),NULL,pp 163-169
R6412,DUTRIEU,Vincent,NULL,Mariotte (sous-marin),NULL,pp 194,212
R6413,GOULIN,Georges,NULL,Mariotte (sous-marin),4405,pp 191, 200-201

R6413,LAGUADEC,Jean,NULL,Mariotte (sous-marin),6090,pp 192,206

R6413,LEGENDRE,Richard,NULL,croiseur Dupleix,33647 L,pp 139-140
R6414,PAPON,Georges,NULL,Mariotte (sous-marin),1306,pp 191, 200-201

R6415,PERIOU,Guillaume,NULL,croiseur Dupleix,36194 L,pp 116-117
R6415,PETIT,Louis,NULL,croiseur Dupleix,34293 L,pp 157-158
R6415,PRIOL,----,NULL,Mariotte (sous-marin),NULL,pp 191,202

R6415,VERINNES,Maurice,NULL,Mariotte (sous-marin),NULL,pp 194, 213
 

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I came across the following, in French, on Forum pages14-18, and thought no more of it:

 

Quote

Recherches 14-18: petit memento

Les prisonniers français, les rapatriés, les morts en captivité, en territoire occupé, ...

 

The main tool for searching for prisoners of war soldiers is the website of the ICRC / CICR (Comité International de la Croix Rouge)... 

 

The Gazette des Ardennes (German propaganda newspaper) distributed lists of prisoners and returnees in the occupied territories. The Heidelberg Library has put all of its copies online. The list is far from complete, but you never know.

http://www.ub.uni-heidelberg.de/helios/digi/feldzeitungen.html

A tip: Type the name you are looking for in the "Volltext" field of the left tab.

[Author: Jerôme Charraud
The original text, in its entirety, can be seen by clicking on the header. The above is a translation, and is reproduced here under "fair use" terms.]

 

It reminded me of The Times list, albeit produced by "the other side". It seemed unlikely that I would be researching a French soldier imprisoned by the Germans.

To my surprise, Michel in Québec put me on to a page of this publication, dated 20 October 1917, that was kept by the ICRC themselves. It lists prisoners held by the Turks, and those taken prisoner on the Macedonian Front. The reference is R100948, and a link to this series of documents is below
https://grandeguerre.icrc.org/fr/List/2866890/732/100948/

 

There is an interesting account, in French, of the treatment of the Ship's Cook of the Mariotte during his captivity with the Turks:
https://forum.pages14-18.com/viewtopic.php?f=29&t=43443&hilit=mariotte&start=10#p332942

 

 

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I did wonder about Percy Howlett, son of William James Howlett. He is indeed French, and not British. His record in Paris has been digitised, and his matricule number is 1930. He was born in Paris on 31 July 1894. He had been born in the 1st Arondissement, but was residing in the 17th Arondissement in 1914.

http://archives.paris.fr/s/17/etats-signaletiques-et-des-services-militaires/1753517/howlett/?&debut=0

 

It records that he was wounded and captured on 9/10 May 1915 and was repatriated on 2 February 1915. He held the rank of Soldat de 1er Classe. Despite the fact that he was a motor car driver, the faceless bureaucracy of the army put him in the infantry, instead of putting his skills to better use with the Artillery & Train.

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Interesting to see that many of the Frenchmen on Keith's list were being held at Belemedik, perhaps some died there. The work camp for those working on the rail tunnel. Many died there but no grave, including my Great Uncle Harry Rosevere, 8th Lancs Fusiliers, (not Roseven as on the earlier Turkish list), commemorated in Baghdad.

 

Peter

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In the weighty tome 'Gallipoli - New Perspectives on the Mediterranean Expeditionary Force, 1915-16', there is an excellent piece by Stephen Chambers 'Guest of the Sultan: MEF Prisoners of War', pp684-718. which may be of interest. The experiences of a number of the men in Erme's lists above are mentioned.

 

Regards

Alan

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There are 6,092 of the Corps expéditionnaire d'Orient who went missing in action, according to the official history, of whom there were 40 soldiers and one naval aircraft pilot that I could identity. It would be interesting to see how many British and Commonwealth forces were likewise missing, and how many became prisoners of war. 

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Hi Keith 

 

I hope I do not mis-quote Stephen, but I believe he said that there were 513 British and Commonwealth officers and men known to be prisoners of war though there where probably others that went unrecorded. Of the 513, 137 died in captivity through various illnesses, one died from an accident and four others died after their release.
 

Kind regards 

Alan

Edited by alantwo
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Thanks Alan, good to know that this has been researched, and even better to know the name of the source. I see Aspinall-Oglander, quoting from an official history on page 484, has 43,000 British killed or missing. I have seen this broken down further into 34,072 killed and 7,654 missing

Regards, 

Keith

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