themonsstar Posted 4 May , 2018 Share Posted 4 May , 2018 Does anyone know how many allied PoWs were captured at Gallipoli and are there any lists for them Thank you for your time. Roy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie2 Posted 4 May , 2018 Share Posted 4 May , 2018 Roy, There are the Red Cross records of the PoWs and missing https://grandeguerre.icrc.org/en/File/Search#/3/2/186/0/British and Commonwealth/Military/ Charlie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
themonsstar Posted 5 May , 2018 Author Share Posted 5 May , 2018 Cheers Charlie I was looking for the hole number of PoWs captured. Thank you for the link Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaureenE Posted 5 May , 2018 Share Posted 5 May , 2018 There are some statistics on page 329, although difficult to read as the page needs to be rotated. Statistics of the Military Effort of the British Empire during the Great War, 1914-1920 https://archive.org/stream/statisticsofmili00grea#page/329/mode/1up There appear to be very few. I think this was because most potential prisoners were killed immediately, and never became POWs. Cheers Maureen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie962 Posted 5 May , 2018 Share Posted 5 May , 2018 1 hour ago, Maureene said: most potential prisoners were killed immediately A selected few (for reasons I don't know) were kept alive and ended up in Turkish PoW camps. But not for the majority. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emrezmen Posted 5 May , 2018 Share Posted 5 May , 2018 (edited) Dear Roy, There are some lists available. In 2009, Turkish General Staff published testimonies, letters and lists of Allied soldiers captured during the campaign, in a book of two volumes. These lists are annoyingly complicated and some names are missing. As a result of that, my source may not reflect the exact number of POWs. Moreover, there are some horrible typos. Some of the names can be difficult to understand. This is because lists are transcribed/translated mostly from handwritten documents in Old Turkish (or English). Another, simpler version: (Some names may be missing) Source: And figures from official source that suggested before in post #4. Edited 2 September , 2018 by emrezmen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie962 Posted 6 May , 2018 Share Posted 6 May , 2018 (edited) Well done Emrezmen for finding those detailed Rolls. By taking a couple of names off them and comparing to the ICRC database I see there are listings in the range R5531-R5542 which are probably all Gallipoli men. Again around R5900 where their place of capture is given. Not easy to tie up due to mis-spelling and ICRC misfiling but looks practical to try and compile an fairly accurate list of these depressingly small numbers. Just taking a random example from the long list above: Mathew Lennon, 6th Bn R Dublin Fusiliers, died 29/11/15 ( source SDGW): -(died as a PoW per Casualty Lists) in the above long list: but not on the short list ? on ICRC: as captured Anafarta 12/8/15 and died 29/11/16 R6429 (also on list R5542 as Leunon) Charlie edit. Checking back the other way, Grimes CW, Cpl 15/Norfolks on R6429 above is on long listing above as but I couldn't see him on short listing? He is on SDGW as William charles Grimes, 322, 1/5 Norfolks, died 12/9/15 It would be interesting to know what documents the 'long listing' in the 2009 Turkish General Staff publication was compiled from. What are the reference numbers in the 'short listing' ? Edited 6 May , 2018 by charlie962 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emrezmen Posted 6 May , 2018 Share Posted 6 May , 2018 (edited) 16 hours ago, charlie962 said: in the above long list: but not on the short list ? edit. Checking back the other way, Grimes CW, Cpl 15/Norfolks on R6429 above is on long listing above as but I couldn't see him on short listing? It would be interesting to know what documents the 'long listing' in the 2009 Turkish General Staff publication was compiled from. What are the reference numbers in the 'short listing' ? The short list contains only the names of those who have statements in the book. It's kinda "Table of Contents" part and those numbers are just page numbers. Sorry for not mentioning about that. The detailed list was compiled from documents held in ATASE (Askerî Tarih ve Stratejik Etüt Başkanlığı/Directorate of Military History and Strategic Studies) Archives at Ankara. Originally they're all Old Turkish. An example from original Old Turkish lists: And a little bit of reference list for prisoner statements: Edited 7 May , 2018 by emrezmen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie962 Posted 6 May , 2018 Share Posted 6 May , 2018 Thanks for that. Charlie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b3rn Posted 7 May , 2018 Share Posted 7 May , 2018 I haven’t read this book but have read the thesis on which it is based. Worth tracking down. Kismet: the story of the Gallipoli prisoners of war by Jennifer Lawless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
themonsstar Posted 7 May , 2018 Author Share Posted 7 May , 2018 Thank you all who have contributed to the post. Here some of the British Pow Index from the Documents and one of the statements this one is from Maj Herbert Alfred Brett 4th Bn Worcestershire Regiment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith_history_buff Posted 28 September , 2020 Share Posted 28 September , 2020 Below is a partial transcript taken from ICRC records, recorded on six sheets, folios R6411 to R6416 inclusive. There are 85 men listed in total, 25 of whom are soldiers, and the remaining 60 are sailors. Below are those identified as soldiers. The data has been recorded in a way that it can be copied into a spreadsheet, and delineated from its comma separated value format. 9 février 1916 français au camp de Bilémédik Pouzanti Folio,Nom,Prénoms,Né en,Régiment Compagnie,Numéro de matricule R6411,AMELIE,Georges,NULL,1er Zouave,NULL R6411,BARRIER,Victor,1881,1er Rgt. génie 4/14,NULL R6411,BIGEARD,Jean,1883,3.Rgt.Colonial.12.Comp.,NULL R6411,BILLON,Paul,NULL,6.Rgt.Colonial mixte section mitrailleuse,22 AC 5351 R6412,BOURNERIE,Henri,NULL,175ème Infanterie.6.Comp,1274,Caporal R6412,COUDERC,Joseph,1883,6.Rgt.Colonial mixte section mitrailleuse,NULL R6412,DOMENGES,Pierre,NULL,7.col.6ème Compagnie,9175 R6412,DREAU,François,1881,1er Rgt. génie 4/14,NULL R6412,GIACOMONI,Pascal,NULL,4ème Col.Mixte 2ème.Bat,52137 R6413,GONDARD,Marius,NULL,3.Rgt.Colonial.12.Comp.,61 C 8655 R6413,KAMARA,Daouda,NULL,7ème Col.12ème Comp.,11772 R6413,LAJUNCOMME,Julien,NULL,175ème Rgt.6ème Comp.,862 R6414,MAMADOU,Yanogo,NULL,6ème Rgt.Col.12ème Comp.,16459 R6414,MARLAIX,Léon,1885,1er Rgt. Génie 4/14,NULL R6414,MARTIN,Henri Michel,1886,175ème de ligne 2.Bat.,NULL R6414,MICHEL,Antoine,NULL,4ème Colonial 7.,4 I.C. 0125 R6414,MOUSSA SAA,Birité Birité,NULL,6ème colo.mixte 3ème bat,16903 R6414,PASTOR,Jean,NULL,Lég.étrangère 3.Comp.,16673 R6415,PERRIN,Louis,1893,4ème Zouave 26ème Comp.,NULL R6415,PLANQUET,Henri,1884,176ème Infant.4ème Comp.,NULL R6415,PREVE,Maurice,NULL,175ème Rgt.1ère Comp.,21682 R6415,TROUILLET,Georges,1890,2ème maître pilote Aviateur,NULL R6415,VASSALI,Thomas,NULL,2ème Rgt.Légion Etrang.,19775 R6416,VIALAT,Maurice,NULL,12ème Rgt.Col.12ème Comp.,41c 9469 R6416,VICTOR,Emile,NULL,1er Rgt. Génie 4/14,NULL https://grandeguerre.icrc.org/en/List/1050046/732/6411/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith_history_buff Posted 28 September , 2020 Share Posted 28 September , 2020 I have had a go at trying to reconcile them with the book from 2009 Folio,Nom,Prénoms,Né en,Régiment Compagnie,Numéro de matricule,Book pages R6411,AMELIE,Georges,NULL,1er Zouave,NULL,95-106 R6412,BOURNERIE,Henri,NULL,175ème Infanterie.6.Comp,1274,82-88 R6412,COUDERC,Joseph,1883,6.Rgt.Colonial mixte section mitrailleuse,NULL,126-130 R6412,DOMENGES,Pierre,NULL,7.col.6ème Compagnie,9175,159-162 R6412,GIACOMONI,Pascal,NULL,4ème Col.Mixte 2ème.Bat,52137,107-111 R6413,LAJUNCOMME,Julien,NULL,175ème Rgt.6ème Comp.,862,131-135 R6414,MICHEL,Antoine,NULL,4ème Colonial 7.,0125,150-154 R6415,PLANQUET,Henri,1884,176ème Infant.4ème Comp.,NULL,76-81 R6415,PREVE,Maurice,NULL,175ème Rgt.1ère Comp.,21682,141-144 R6415,VASSALI,Thomas,NULL,2ème Rgt.Légion Etrang.,19775,170-172 Title Prisoners of war at the Çanakkale Battles: testimonies and letters Tr: Çanakkale Muharebeleri'nin esirleri : ifadeler ve mektuplar Authors Ahmet Tetik, Yusuf Serdar Demirtaş, Sema Demirtaş Publisher Genelkurmay Basım Evi, 2009 Length 1414 pages In addition, I believe have also found capture dates for Pascal GIACOMONI & Henri PLANQUET from Emrezmen's transcriptions above. Folio,Nom,Prénoms,Né en,Régiment Compagnie,Numéro de matricule,Capture R6411,BARRIER,Victor,1881,1er Rgt. génie 4/14,NULL,09-May-1915 R6411,BIGEARD,Jean,1883,3.Rgt.Colonial.12.Comp.,NULL,09-May-1915 R6412,DREAU,François,1881,1er Rgt. génie 4/14,NULL,09-May-1915 R6412,GIACOMONI,Pascal,NULL,4ème Col.Mixte 2ème.Bat,52137,23-Mar-1915 R6413,GONDARD,Marius,NULL,3.Rgt.Colonial.12.Comp.,61 C 8655,09-May-1915 R6414,MAMADOU,Yanogo,NULL,6ème Rgt.Col.12ème Comp.,16459,09-May-1915 R6414,MARTIN,Henri Michel,1886,175ème de ligne 2.Bat.,NULL,09-May-1915 R6415,PLANQUET,Henri,1884,176ème Infant.4ème Comp.,NULL,18-Jul-1915 R6416,VICTOR,Emile,NULL,1er Rgt. Génie 4/14,NULL,09-May-1915 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith_history_buff Posted 28 September , 2020 Share Posted 28 September , 2020 One omission from the reconciliation was Daouda KAMARA who appears in the index for pages 7-12 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith_history_buff Posted 28 September , 2020 Share Posted 28 September , 2020 Transcription of the rest of the ICRC list, all sailors: 9 février 1916 français au camp de Bilémédik Pouzanti Folio,Nom,Prénoms,Né en,Vaisseau,Numéro de matricule R6411,AGNERAY,Victor,NULL,croiseur Dupleix,1710 C R6411,BIAGGINI,Louis,NULL,croiseur Dupleix,6530 M R6412,DEMOY,Laurent,NULL,croiseur Dupleix,24086 S.B. R6413,GOAVEC,Hector,NULL,croiseur Dupleix,95016 2 R6413,LEGENDRE,Richard,NULL,croiseur Dupleix,33647 L R6414,MERETTE,Adolphe,NULL,croiseur Dupleix,1179 BP R6415,PERIOU,Guillaume,NULL,croiseur Dupleix,36194 L R6415,PETIT,Louis,NULL,croiseur Dupleix,34293 L R6415,RIMA,Eugène,NULL,croiseur Dupleix,7529 PP R6411,ARTAUD,Eugène,1884,Mariotte (sous-marin),NULL R6411,ARZUR,Jean,1884,Mariotte (sous-marin),NULL R6411,AUSTRIC,François,1892,Mariotte (sous-marin),NULL R6411,BLEUMEN,Guillaume,1887,Mariotte (sous-marin),NULL R6412,CORRE,Alexis,NULL,Mariotte (sous-marin),5402 R6412,DUTRIEU,Vincent,NULL,Mariotte (sous-marin),NULL R6412,FOURNIER,Charles,NULL,Mariotte (sous-marin),2163 R6413,GOAZDUF,René,NULL,Mariotte (sous-marin),11936 R6413,GOULIN,Georges,NULL,Mariotte (sous-marin),4405 R6413,GUIBERT,Michel,NULL,Mariotte (sous-marin),10589 R6413,GUILLARD,Jules,1891,Mariotte (sous-marin),NULL R6413,JANNIN,Adolphe,NULL,Mariotte (sous-marin),50130 R6413,LAGUADEC,Jean,NULL,Mariotte (sous-marin),6090 R6413,LEDUN,Charles,1891,Mariotte (sous-marin),NULL R6413,LELEU,Raymond,NULL,Mariotte (sous-marin),44822 R6414,LELIAS,Louis,1886,Mariotte (sous-marin),NULL R6414,LEPORT,Ernest,1884,Mariotte (sous-marin),NULL R6414,MENISSIER,Julien,NULL,Mariotte (sous-marin),10589 R6414,PAPON,Georges,NULL,Mariotte (sous-marin),1306 R6415,PRIOL,----,NULL,Mariotte (sous-marin),NULL R6415,REYNAUD,Henri,1893,Mariotte (sous-marin),NULL R6415,SAILLARD,Gaston,NULL,Mariotte (sous-marin),22478 R6415,TREBOUTA,Yves,NULL,Mariotte (sous-marin),50578 R6415,VAUTIER,Victor,NULL,Mariotte (sous-marin),2099 R6415,VERINNES,Maurice,NULL,Mariotte (sous-marin),NULL R6416,VIGOT,Gratien,1889,Mariotte (sous-marin),NULL R6412,DI MAURO,François,NULL,Saphir (sous-marin),6965 M R6411,ALAZET,François,NULL,Turquoise (sous-marin),NULL R6411,AZEMA,Georges,NULL,Turquoise (sous-marin),NULL R6411,BARDIN,Louis,NULL,Turquoise (sous-marin),NULL R6411,BEAUVOIR,Jean,NULL,Turquoise (sous-marin),NULL R6411,BECQUE,Marcel,NULL,Turquoise (sous-marin),NULL R6411,BONNET,Eugène,NULL,Turquoise (sous-marin),NULL R6412,CARAIN,Yves,NULL,Turquoise (sous-marin),NULL R6412,DARBERA,Paul,NULL,Turquoise (sous-marin),NULL R6412,EUDES,----,NULL,Turquoise (sous-marin),NULL R6412,GANDEMER,Eugène,NULL,Turquoise (sous-marin),NULL R6412,GOAVEC,François,NULL,Turquoise (sous-marin),NULL R6413,KERLO,François,NULL,Turquoise (sous-marin),NULL R6413,LABROUCHE,René,NULL,Turquoise (sous-marin),NULL R6413,LARROUY,Paul,NULL,Turquoise (sous-marin),NULL R6413,LE BON,----,NULL,Turquoise (sous-marin),NULL R6414,LE PARC,Joseph,NULL,Turquoise (sous-marin),NULL R6414,LE QUERREC,François,NULL,Turquoise (sous-marin),NULL R6414,LE ROLLAND,Valentin,NULL,Turquoise (sous-marin),NULL R6414,MAUBOURGUET,Pierre,NULL,Turquoise (sous-marin),NULL R6414,MOUCHET,Paul,NULL,Turquoise (sous-marin),NULL R6415,PELEGRIN,Louis,NULL,Turquoise (sous-marin),NULL R6415,REBOUL,Léandre,NULL,Turquoise (sous-marin),NULL R6415,TESTAUD,Alcide,NULL,Turquoise (sous-marin),NULL R6416,WATTELIER,Marcel,NULL,Turquoise (sous-marin),NULL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith_history_buff Posted 28 September , 2020 Share Posted 28 September , 2020 A quick attempt to reconcile some of those sailors with the book from 2009 Folio,Nom,Prénoms,Né en,Vaisseau,Numéro de matricule,Pages R6412,DARBERA,Paul,NULL,Turquoise (sous-marin),NULL,pp 163-169 R6412,DUTRIEU,Vincent,NULL,Mariotte (sous-marin),NULL,pp 194,212 R6413,GOULIN,Georges,NULL,Mariotte (sous-marin),4405,pp 191, 200-201 R6413,LAGUADEC,Jean,NULL,Mariotte (sous-marin),6090,pp 192,206 R6413,LEGENDRE,Richard,NULL,croiseur Dupleix,33647 L,pp 139-140 R6414,PAPON,Georges,NULL,Mariotte (sous-marin),1306,pp 191, 200-201 R6415,PERIOU,Guillaume,NULL,croiseur Dupleix,36194 L,pp 116-117 R6415,PETIT,Louis,NULL,croiseur Dupleix,34293 L,pp 157-158 R6415,PRIOL,----,NULL,Mariotte (sous-marin),NULL,pp 191,202 R6415,VERINNES,Maurice,NULL,Mariotte (sous-marin),NULL,pp 194, 213 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mebu Posted 29 September , 2020 Share Posted 29 September , 2020 Emrezmen, thanks for that, some info there on a relative. Peter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith_history_buff Posted 29 September , 2020 Share Posted 29 September , 2020 I came across the following, in French, on Forum pages14-18, and thought no more of it: Quote Recherches 14-18: petit memento Les prisonniers français, les rapatriés, les morts en captivité, en territoire occupé, ... The main tool for searching for prisoners of war soldiers is the website of the ICRC / CICR (Comité International de la Croix Rouge)... The Gazette des Ardennes (German propaganda newspaper) distributed lists of prisoners and returnees in the occupied territories. The Heidelberg Library has put all of its copies online. The list is far from complete, but you never know. http://www.ub.uni-heidelberg.de/helios/digi/feldzeitungen.html A tip: Type the name you are looking for in the "Volltext" field of the left tab. [Author: Jerôme Charraud The original text, in its entirety, can be seen by clicking on the header. The above is a translation, and is reproduced here under "fair use" terms.] It reminded me of The Times list, albeit produced by "the other side". It seemed unlikely that I would be researching a French soldier imprisoned by the Germans. To my surprise, Michel in Québec put me on to a page of this publication, dated 20 October 1917, that was kept by the ICRC themselves. It lists prisoners held by the Turks, and those taken prisoner on the Macedonian Front. The reference is R100948, and a link to this series of documents is belowhttps://grandeguerre.icrc.org/fr/List/2866890/732/100948/ There is an interesting account, in French, of the treatment of the Ship's Cook of the Mariotte during his captivity with the Turks:https://forum.pages14-18.com/viewtopic.php?f=29&t=43443&hilit=mariotte&start=10#p332942 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith_history_buff Posted 29 September , 2020 Share Posted 29 September , 2020 I did wonder about Percy Howlett, son of William James Howlett. He is indeed French, and not British. His record in Paris has been digitised, and his matricule number is 1930. He was born in Paris on 31 July 1894. He had been born in the 1st Arondissement, but was residing in the 17th Arondissement in 1914. http://archives.paris.fr/s/17/etats-signaletiques-et-des-services-militaires/1753517/howlett/?&debut=0 It records that he was wounded and captured on 9/10 May 1915 and was repatriated on 2 February 1915. He held the rank of Soldat de 1er Classe. Despite the fact that he was a motor car driver, the faceless bureaucracy of the army put him in the infantry, instead of putting his skills to better use with the Artillery & Train. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mebu Posted 29 September , 2020 Share Posted 29 September , 2020 Interesting to see that many of the Frenchmen on Keith's list were being held at Belemedik, perhaps some died there. The work camp for those working on the rail tunnel. Many died there but no grave, including my Great Uncle Harry Rosevere, 8th Lancs Fusiliers, (not Roseven as on the earlier Turkish list), commemorated in Baghdad. Peter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith_history_buff Posted 3 October , 2020 Share Posted 3 October , 2020 Yet again, my contact Michel has come up trumps, this time with a link to a photo, and some very interesting narrative, in relation to Belemedik https://www.flickr.com/photos/39631091@N03/6932593819/in/album-72157622412214804/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alantwo Posted 7 October , 2020 Share Posted 7 October , 2020 In the weighty tome 'Gallipoli - New Perspectives on the Mediterranean Expeditionary Force, 1915-16', there is an excellent piece by Stephen Chambers 'Guest of the Sultan: MEF Prisoners of War', pp684-718. which may be of interest. The experiences of a number of the men in Erme's lists above are mentioned. Regards Alan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith_history_buff Posted 7 October , 2020 Share Posted 7 October , 2020 There are 6,092 of the Corps expéditionnaire d'Orient who went missing in action, according to the official history, of whom there were 40 soldiers and one naval aircraft pilot that I could identity. It would be interesting to see how many British and Commonwealth forces were likewise missing, and how many became prisoners of war. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alantwo Posted 10 October , 2020 Share Posted 10 October , 2020 (edited) Hi Keith I hope I do not mis-quote Stephen, but I believe he said that there were 513 British and Commonwealth officers and men known to be prisoners of war though there where probably others that went unrecorded. Of the 513, 137 died in captivity through various illnesses, one died from an accident and four others died after their release. Kind regards Alan Edited 10 October , 2020 by alantwo Spelling Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith_history_buff Posted 10 October , 2020 Share Posted 10 October , 2020 Thanks Alan, good to know that this has been researched, and even better to know the name of the source. I see Aspinall-Oglander, quoting from an official history on page 484, has 43,000 British killed or missing. I have seen this broken down further into 34,072 killed and 7,654 missing Regards, Keith Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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