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birkettm

No MIC

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birkettm

Hello.

It is now becoming obvious that one of my Great Grandads no longer has a MIC (i have spoken to the NA and apparently a certain % have been missing / destroyed within their lifetime), so my question is:

If my great grandad enlisted 02/09/1914 when would he have got to the front, assuming he was not a professional soldier, and therefore had to be trained etc? Any ideas? And therefore what would his entitlement have been?

Details are:

24165 Pte Amos Guntrip Wakenshaw, East Yorkshire Regiment.

Enlistment Date: 02/09/1914

Discharge Date: 21/07/1917

SWB Issue Date: 30/10/1916

Any advice appreciated.

Cheers,

Marc

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hmsk212

Hi Marc

If your great grandfather was awarded a Silver War Badge then the War Badge Roll will tell you all you need to know. Along with the dates of enlistment and discharge it should tell you why he was discharged and if he served abroad. If he didn't serve abroad he will not be entitled to any medals but if he did then he should be at least entitled to the British War Medal

Steve

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birkettm

No. Thats his SWB card. ;) Im interested in an entitlement which is not on it.

I have that, it states he was discharged due to sickness and 'No longer able bodied' (or words to that effect) under the kings regulations. My question wazs more would he have qualified for a 1914-15 star if he enlisted 2.9.14?

I am aware i can check the medal rolls but it is not easy for me to get to london.

Ta.

marc

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KONDOA

Hi,

If your man joined Sept 1914 it is unlikely that he would be embarked prior to late 1915 or after but may have been in a reserve/service battalion. This late date would preclude the issue of a star. Similarly if he stayed in UK his entitlement would be only one medal I believe (BW).

The MIC indicated by Ian would appear to be his entitlement which would suggest a reserve/service status.

I would look at his SWB record as suggested previously which will remove much uncertainty here.

Roop

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Guest Ian Bowbrick
No. Thats his SWB card.

As the on-line system does not differentiate and neither does the manual fiche system at the PRO - I am hardly in a position to be criticised.

The enlistment date is irrelevant as to whether someone served overseas or not - you need to consult 363/364/26 for a deifinite answer to this. You might find that he was not A/B1 or served somewhere like Ireland, then part of the UK or was simply just HS in England.

As Roop says you need someone going to Kew do look up as to whether he served overseas or not.

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birkettm
I am hardly in a position to be criticised.

as am i for not finding it in the first place.

Thanks for the help guys.

ta,

marc

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Blackblue

Marc,

If this is his only card you will probably find he did not see active service and is therefore not entitled to any medals. The NA guide outlines the types of cards and advises the SWB card was used for those who received a SWB only. Read the following guide from the PRO:

http://www.documentsonline.nationalarchive...v.uk/medals.asp

Rgds

Tim

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birkettm

So if he did not see any service then under what circumstances would he be awarded a SWB - i was under the impression that these were for those who had been wounded and were therefore no longer fit to serve?

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hmsk212
So if he did not see any service then under what circumstances would he be awarded a SWB - i was under the impression that these were for those who had been wounded and were therefore no longer fit to serve?

Silver War Badges were issued to military personnel who were discharged due to sickness or wounds contracted or received due to service either at home or abroad. They were also given for a variety of other reasons, I have a badge to a man who was discharged "granted pension"

Steve

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Guest Ian Bowbrick

His silver war badge roll, which I looked at today, indicates that he did not serve overseas and was discharged as a result of sickness.

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birkettm

cheers. so he only received his SWB??

sorry for being so thick!

Edit:

Ive been having a think - up until i few years ago there were letters from amos' wife to him at the front, and there is deffo still a postcard, residing in the family bible, which was a staged photo of a soldier in uniform sent to him in the Tyneside Scottish. So, i have a theory:

Could he have volunteered 1914 and been discharged due to sickness. Then re-volunteered or been conscripted into his local regiment (the Northumberland Fusiliers) and given a new military number? Therefore he would have no link to his previous service?

I cant explain the absence of another MIC though...

Anyone want to shoot me down?

ta.

marc

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bedfordyeoman

You might find that he re-enlisted into a different regiment.

I have a SWB to the Bedfordshire Yeomanry which I thought was the chap's only entitlement because the SWB roll indicated no overseas service. I then discovered, by chance, that he re-enlisted with the Royal Engineers and served overseas.

So if you're convinced he had a medal entitlement, you will need to do a bit of sleuthing.

Having spent many an hour trawling through fiches at NA, I should also add that medal entitlements are sometimes contained on what most of us would regard as a "SWB card" (experience tells me that you take nothing for granted when dealing with MICs - you get 3 cards, no card, wrong spellings, wrong regiments, wrong order of service - in fact, any permutation you like).

All the best

David

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birkettm

I have a postcard to him addressed to:

21494 Pte A Wakenshaw, 2/Tyneside Scottish

He also does not have a MIC so i think i will go to the regimental museum and start my search there.

Ta.

Marc

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bedfordyeoman

Could be that he served with the 2TS without going overseas and was transferred to the East Yorks and was invalided out still with no foreign service. A MIC will only list regiments after a medal entitlement arose.

Does the postcard pre-date the SWB period of service ? if so, that's the answer.

If not, you'll need to have a look at the 2TS and EY medal rolls (don't envy you).

All the best

David

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birkettm

I dont have the card to hand at the mo and havent written anything down regarding a date. I will have a look tomorrow.

The postcard is addressed to:

“Pte A Wakenshaw,

Y Section,

11 _______,

2 Battalion

Tyneside Scottish

21494”

So assuming it is overseas.

I have written to the NF museum at Alnwick Castle to ask if there would be a good place to start.

If i end up looking at the medal rolls then so be it!

ta.

marc

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