clivefarmer Posted 24 April , 2018 Share Posted 24 April , 2018 Help sought , researching Gnr Charles Abram Butler RFA #241760 . Dob late 1899 Dod 1/10/1918 CWGC Chapel Corner Cemetery . Lived and worked in North Yorkshire . His MIC and medal roll have virtually no information . His service record cannot be found probably lost . Enlisted in Richmond , date unknown . I would like to know something about his service but have no idea where to go beyond the research I have already carried out , Can anyone offer any advice? Clive Farmer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rustyredhead Posted 24 April , 2018 Share Posted 24 April , 2018 Hello Clive, Not the best, and could only find Mic & CWGC page, which you probably already have, also on Ancestry stated Royal Horse Artillery and Royal Field Artillery If you have looked on Ancestry, you will probably have seen this, but as it's a Photo thought I'd mention it just in case https://www.ancestry.co.uk/family-tree/person/tree/29424451/person/13840926366/facts Regards Rusty Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Porter Posted 24 April , 2018 Share Posted 24 April , 2018 (edited) His service number was issued at No.1 Depot, Newcastle in late September or early October 1917. So this would probably be when he was called up, as no former service is mentioned. The Army Registers of Soldiers' Effects, 1901-1929 on Ancestry confirms he was killed in action. You should be able find the War Diary for October 1, 1918 on Ancestry too. There are at least three other men from A/155 buried in the same cemetery around that date. Edited 24 April , 2018 by David Porter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clk Posted 24 April , 2018 Share Posted 24 April , 2018 Hi Clive, Ancestry took their cut of diaries at the divisional level, and below. It looks like 155 Brigade became 'army troops' in March 1917, so I think you'd need to get the diary (£3.50) from the National Archives - link here. Regards Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clivefarmer Posted 24 April , 2018 Author Share Posted 24 April , 2018 Thanks to all those who responded , offering some more information which adds to what I know . I have also found his name on two UK war memorials , Hutton Magna where he worked and Newsham where he lived at an earlier stage of his life . I have the 155th Brigade war diary now , its a bit difficult to interpret because locations are referred to by alphanumeric codes rather than names but no doubt there is a key to the codes somewhere . The photo is interesting and is also in the Bowes Museum , Barnard Castle archive . best wishes Clive Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clk Posted 24 April , 2018 Share Posted 24 April , 2018 Hi Clive, 26 minutes ago, clivefarmer said: alphanumeric codes (Partial) trench map references?? See here. There's a reasonable selection of maps here. Regards Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clivefarmer Posted 26 April , 2018 Author Share Posted 26 April , 2018 Many thanks both the referencing system and the maps themselves will help me pin down where he was KIA Regards Clive Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris WIlletts Posted 11 March , 2021 Share Posted 11 March , 2021 Hi Clive, Charles Abram Butler RFA #241760 was my Nana's Uncle on her dad side called Joseph Henry Butler). I have some information and images I would love to share and collaborate with you on. Are you related? He ran away at 15 didn't tell his family. The rest of his family stayed in Newsham. You can see a picture of him and his family timeline. https://livesofthefirstworldwar.iwm.org.uk/lifestory/680404#remember Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris WIlletts Posted 11 March , 2021 Share Posted 11 March , 2021 (edited) Charles is sitting bottom right, does anyone recognize the others? Edited 11 March , 2021 by Chris WIlletts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie962 Posted 12 March , 2021 Share Posted 12 March , 2021 16 hours ago, Chris WIlletts said: You can see a picture of him and his family timeline. Looks like that was posted by Clive ? @clivefarmer PS Welcome to the Forum Charlie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clivefarmer Posted 13 March , 2021 Author Share Posted 13 March , 2021 Greetings My research was based on the village of Hutton Magna and the men whose names appear on the Memorial in the Lychgate of St Mary's Church . Inside the Church there are some documents containing basic research about each of the men listed and I was trying to expand on that . I am not related to anyone on the memorial and live near Southampton . I am a volunteer researcher for the Imperial War Museum and am always interested in information related to War Memorials and the individuals commemorated on them, but I am not actively researching any of the Hutton Magna men . best wishes Clive Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris WIlletts Posted 15 March , 2021 Share Posted 15 March , 2021 Thank you for in the invite to the forum, special thanks to @clivefarmerfor all the research you have done. This made my 94 year old Nana super happy. Were you able to pin point where he was killed in action? Also how can I find out his role in the RFA ? Looking for recommendations on how to find more information and or hire someone. Desperate to piece this together for my Nana. Thank you all, Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie962 Posted 15 March , 2021 Share Posted 15 March , 2021 On 24/04/2018 at 16:07, David Porter said: His service number was issued at No.1 Depot, Newcastle in late September or early October 1917. So this would probably be when he was called up, as no former service is mentioned. The Army Registers of Soldiers' Effects, 1901-1929 on Ancestry confirms he was killed in action. You should be able find the War Diary for October 1, 1918 on Ancestry too. There are at least three other men from A/155 buried in the same cemetery around that date. David previously posted this useful summary of his likely enlistment. Perhaps he can give an idea of when Charles might first have gone to France. Perhaps it was after some 6 months of training (and some reinforcements were deliberately held back in England in Feb/March 1918) and then sent to reinforce Battery losses ? The War Diary has also been linked above On 24/04/2018 at 16:45, clk said: from the National Archives - link here. and if you register at National Archives it is (currently due to Covid) free to download. But don't expect to see too much. Other ranks are rarely mentioned by name. However it will tell you where the Brigade and the Battery were operating and the sort of action they were seeing. You will probably want to ask a Forum pal to interpret some of the entries and there are experts here keen to have a go. Charlie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pat Atkins Posted 15 March , 2021 Share Posted 15 March , 2021 Craig's @ss002d6252 calculator could identify the approximate date of enlistment - in a bit of a rush so haven't done so myself (sorry) but search the Forum using e.g. "gratuity calculator" and you'll find it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie962 Posted 15 March , 2021 Share Posted 15 March , 2021 (edited) If you look at the War Diary entry of 1st Oct 1918 it talks about the 155 Brigade RFA providing part of a barrage in support of an (unsuccessful) 32nd infantry Brigade attack on a railway line objective at 5 in the morning. The Diary notes that CB (= counter battery ) fire was heavy during the barrage. In other words the Germans located the guns that were shelling them and shelled back! This is probably when Charles was killed and he was probably one of those serving the guns at the time. Lots of perhaps and probable, I'm afraid, but unless you come across a comrade's account you will never know for sure. charlie Edited 15 March , 2021 by charlie962 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ss002d6252 Posted 15 March , 2021 Share Posted 15 March , 2021 17 minutes ago, Pat Atkins said: Craig's @ss002d6252 calculator could identify the approximate date of enlistment - in a bit of a rush so haven't done so myself (sorry) but search the Forum using e.g. "gratuity calculator" and you'll find it. £3 10s net - £5 10s gross Tells us he enlisted in the month from 02 September 1917. Craig Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie962 Posted 15 March , 2021 Share Posted 15 March , 2021 (edited) I note that three men from B Battery of 155 Brigade RFA wre admitted to 12th general Hospital on 2/10/18 with shellwounds. Given the time to evacuate this could be for the previous day's action or another day earlier. I'm not sure where 12 GH was located. These are the three, (courtesy Hospital Admission on FindmyPast) Sgt Saxton was evacuated and replaced by Corporal Shearing. Both Saxton and Shearing are noted in the Diary in November as awarded the Military Medal. This again may relate to the action that lead to their wounding ? Shearing has a surviving service record. In that same November list of MM awards is also a Gunner Fox whose number was 235133 and was also B/155. It would certainly suggest something went on in B Battery. The point I am making is that in the light of the destruction of Charles's Service Record one has to try and find other members of the Brigade who might have surviving records that might throw some light. Very time-consuming research but can be very interesting. It all depends how much time you wish to devote to this. Next step is to look for service records for these three wounded to see if actual date of wounding is given...... EDIT- But I see Charles is down as A Battery not B on CWGC so back to the drawing board! But perhaps it gives ideas? Edited 15 March , 2021 by charlie962 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie962 Posted 15 March , 2021 Share Posted 15 March , 2021 Someone else can perhaps follow up these hospital admissions of A/155 RFA to see if any Svc Records ? (I have to sign off) W Whiers L/5871 wounded severe admitted 18GH 1/10/18 (has surviving record showing actual wounding 29/9) G Allison 75968 Wounded GasShell severe admitted 18GH 2/10/18 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie962 Posted 16 March , 2021 Share Posted 16 March , 2021 I note that A/155 had heavy casualties the next day, 2/10/18, when the waggon lines were shelled but I assuming that he was definitely killed the day before. The BSM who was amongst those wounded 2/10 was JE Tate, 59508 who had gained a DCM earlier with the Bty. The 3 men from the same Bty buried in the same Cemetery have dates of death 29/9/18. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris WIlletts Posted 2 August , 2021 Share Posted 2 August , 2021 Hello Back again, after filling out my Family Tree and completing my DNA test, I have met some new relatives that have been able to shed more light. I have complied the information on my new website: https://www.family-treasure.com/charlesbutler155thrfa also about to make facebook group. Me and Jenny cannot thank you Enough for contributing to his story. We are still looking for information. Also will try and investigate the others killed on the same day. https://www.cwgc.org/find-records/find-war-dead/search-results/?CemeteryExact=true&Cemetery=CHAPEL+CORNER+CEMETERY%2c+SAUCHY-LESTREE&Sort=dateofdeath&Size=100&Page=1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris WIlletts Posted 2 August , 2021 Share Posted 2 August , 2021 Can anyone shed more light on this documents and what it reads? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clk Posted 2 August , 2021 Share Posted 2 August , 2021 Hi Chris, What entry (man) in the register are you referring to? Regards Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie962 Posted 2 August , 2021 Share Posted 2 August , 2021 (edited) If you are referring to the first name on the RA Attestation list it is Charles E H Buttle(r) born c 1899 but not your man. This man has former service numbers 104 the 215416 as I read it. Charlie Edit: that entry definitely refers to a Charles E H BUTTLE. Edited 2 August , 2021 by charlie962 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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