johnboy Posted 24 April , 2018 Share Posted 24 April , 2018 13 minutes ago, Michael Lowrey said: It happened a fair amount. Thanks again. It was just that u boat net seems very comprehensive. Would it be reasonable to make the following assumptions? 1It is not SS joshua nicholson 2 She was probably not armed 3 She could have been French merchant marine. 4 Her voyage could have begun from France 5 Destination unknown Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Lowrey Posted 24 April , 2018 Share Posted 24 April , 2018 16 minutes ago, johnboy said: Thanks again. It was just that u boat net seems very comprehensive. Would it be reasonable to make the following assumptions? 1It is not SS joshua nicholson 2 She was probably not armed 3 She could have been French merchant marine. 4 Her voyage could have begun from France 5 Destination unknown 1. 100% certain it's not Joshua Nicholson. The location is strange – why would a steamer outbound from France be near the Runnelstone? U-boats sank a lot of ships south of the Lizard but very few along the coast NW of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnboy Posted 25 April , 2018 Share Posted 25 April , 2018 I am now having second thoghts about the ship originating from France. There is a chance it was en route from America delivering the guns and ammo to British Army. an explanation and drawings from https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=mdp.39015074821250;view=1up;seq=1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Lowrey Posted 25 April , 2018 Share Posted 25 April , 2018 26 minutes ago, johnboy said: I am now having second thoghts about the ship originating from France. There is a chance it was en route from America delivering the guns and ammo to British Army. an explanation and drawings from https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=mdp.39015074821250;view=1up;seq=1 Maybe. How about guns and ammo produced in the U.S. originally intended for Romania that the British acquired? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kildonan Posted 25 April , 2018 Author Share Posted 25 April , 2018 6 hours ago, Michael Lowrey said: Maybe. How about guns and ammo produced in the U.S. originally intended for Romania that the British acquired? Thanks for your input Michael and Johnboy. Now that the i.d. of the wreck as the Joshua Nicholson has been ruled out, I think the only real clue to the identity lies in the ammunition markings. I think the manufacturer will be located from the SMA or St. Chammond marks on their base, my money is on France. The other facts are that the wreck only has one boiler and a huge engine. I have dived scores of WW1 wrecks off north and south Cornwall and from the size of the engine I would say this ship was over 1500 ton. I will work my way through my copy of Lloyds War Losses. The First World War, yet again, as this seems to be the most comprehensive list, and try and find a likely ship....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnboy Posted 25 April , 2018 Share Posted 25 April , 2018 The link I gave has drawings , description and dimensions of gun carriages etc. Useful for ID? I have learnt something new re British Army using metric sizes guns and ammo Would location of ship suggest a voyage from America to Plymouth. Southampton or French port? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wightspirit Posted 25 April , 2018 Share Posted 25 April , 2018 To post your query re munitions on a French WW1 website, try here on the marine page: https://forum.pages14-18.com/viewforum.php?f=28&start=0 Dave W Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Lowrey Posted 25 April , 2018 Share Posted 25 April , 2018 (edited) Kildonan, Lloyd's War Losses: The Frirst World War would be your best bet. Two things to keep in mind though: 1. This doesn't have to be a war loss. The ship could have been lost through a non-war related cause and not be in LWL. 2. There's relatively little U-boat activity in the western English Channel in the second half of 1916. Michael Edited 25 April , 2018 by Michael Lowrey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ralph Currell Posted 25 April , 2018 Share Posted 25 April , 2018 (edited) 2 hours ago, Michael Lowrey said: 1. This doesn't have to be a war loss. The ship could have been lost through a non-war related cause and not be in LWL. 2. There's relatively little U-boat activity in the western English Channel in the second half of 1916. Michael, That's a very good point. The ship could have been lost through ordinary marine hazards. I would not rule out this wreck originating in a French port. A ship sailing from a French channel port to a Russian port (say Archangel) might pass very close to the Runnel Stone on a course around the west of the British Isles. A somewhat similar route can be seen in the chart at www.naval-history.net/OWShips-WW1-01-HMS_Albemarle.png . Regards, Ralph Edited 25 April , 2018 by Ralph Currell Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnboy Posted 25 April , 2018 Share Posted 25 April , 2018 11 minutes ago, Ralph Currell said: Michael, That's a very good point. The ship could have been lost through ordinary marine hazards. I would not rule out this wreck originating in a French port. A ship sailing from a French channel port to a Russian port (say Archangel) might pass very close to the Runnel Stone on a course around the west of the British Isles. A somewhat similar route can be seen in the chart at www.naval-history.net/OWShips-WW1-01-HMS_Albemarle.png . Regards, Ralph See my unanswered post #22.if it was torpedoed would it be likely some of the ammo cargo would have exploded and left much visible damage and maybe scattered some of the cargo? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kildonan Posted 25 April , 2018 Author Share Posted 25 April , 2018 More very useful input, much appreciated. Dave, I will try the French site, I don't doubt that someone will know the place of manufacture. Nothing ventured, nothing gained. Ralph, I will take a look at the website. Johnboy, the location of the wreck is very near to Lands End, so just about any port in the UK could be the destination of a ship coming from the Atlantic. Also, this ship has boxes and boxes of ammo, as well as some large shells (no cases) of about 10" diameter. I think a partial explosion would have sent the lot up. I have dived one ammunition ship off Swanage, where I think about 4000 tons exploded (WW2) all that is left of the ship on the seabed is the engine! I seem to remember it was a former Great Lakes steamer. Michael, I am glad you mentioned that! I had forgotten the sub title Casualties to shipping through enemy causes. Perhaps I will go through my copy of Shipwreck Index of the British Isles instead, for the north and south Cornwall coast. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnboy Posted 25 April , 2018 Share Posted 25 April , 2018 Again , have you seen signs of damage which could shed light on the sinking? Any visible markings on the boxes. The larger guns were fitted to french tanks.Were French ships built in metric? If so any parts complete enough to measure?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kildonan Posted 25 May , 2018 Author Share Posted 25 May , 2018 Just for completeness, the wreck has now been identified by some very knowledgeable members of this forum. The ship is the British registered Serbistan which has been missing for 102 years. Anyone interested in how it came to be identified can find the full detective story here: Many thanks for the huge help received from forum members. Graham Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnboy Posted 25 May , 2018 Share Posted 25 May , 2018 (edited) . Edited 25 May , 2018 by johnboy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MichaelM Posted 27 January , 2023 Share Posted 27 January , 2023 Perhaps this ship maybe the SS Port Nicholson which was sunk in 1917. My great grandfather was the radioman when it sank Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KizmeRD Posted 27 January , 2023 Share Posted 27 January , 2023 S.S. Port Nicholson was mined off Dunkerque 15 January 1917, so safe to say that it’s not the same wreck. MB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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