RitchiebytheC Posted 18 April , 2018 Share Posted 18 April , 2018 Hello folks, I know that there has been much debate regarding the playing of Football in World War One, including the lack of actual evidence of this taking place. I was going through the War Diaries of the Royal Inniskilling Fusiliers and found an entry that states that the Battalion beat the KOSB`s 1-0 after extra time in the "Dardanelles Cup". I cant find any more ¬results from the aforementioned Cup, but did find a newspaper article that relates to football on the Gallipoli peninsula. just thought it would be an interesting topic to have a blether about.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fattyowls Posted 18 April , 2018 Share Posted 18 April , 2018 Hi Rich, to be strictly accurate the lack of (unequivocal) evidence for football being played is in relation to the Christmas Truce 1914; there is loads of evidence of football being played elsewhere, from the Scots Guards including a football report in their war diary in 1917 through John Charteris (later Haig's much criticised Intelligence chief) describing a game where the Prince of Wales featured. Even Haig complained in his diary of football tiring the troops out I seem to remember. And there are loads of photos, just not of the Christmas truce games. What is interesting about this is it's the first time I've seen anything about football being played at Gallipoli. There is a famous picture of the Australians playing cricket but this is a first for me. Pete. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gareth Davies Posted 18 April , 2018 Share Posted 18 April , 2018 Football even makes it into tactical doctrine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fattyowls Posted 18 April , 2018 Share Posted 18 April , 2018 3 hours ago, Gareth Davies said: Football even makes it into tactical doctrine. I would be extremely interested in a reference Gareth; I'm not usually a fan of Niall Ferguson* but one quote of his that I liked was that the British Army was obsessed with football. Pete. *on a scale of 1 to Dan Snow what do you think? About 7? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gareth Davies Posted 18 April , 2018 Share Posted 18 April , 2018 It's in an SS document, I will dig out the reference tomorrow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fattyowls Posted 18 April , 2018 Share Posted 18 April , 2018 Much appreciated. Pete. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gareth Davies Posted 19 April , 2018 Share Posted 19 April , 2018 I have failed you @Fattyowls, I can't find the specific document. It was, I think, in a training note and I think it was one of the SS documents. It's almost certainly mentioned in Sport and the Military: The British Armed Forces 1880-1960 by Tony Mason, Eliza Ried. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fattyowls Posted 19 April , 2018 Share Posted 19 April , 2018 4 hours ago, Gareth Davies said: I have failed you @Fattyowls, I can't find the specific document. It was, I think, in a training note and I think it was one of the SS documents. It's almost certainly mentioned in Sport and the Military: The British Armed Forces 1880-1960 by Tony Mason, Eliza Ried. I think the only course open to you is to fill one chamber of the service revolver and go and do the decent thing......... No problem Gareth, the reference alone is of value, thanks for looking. Just one further question for the mnemonically challenged - what's SS? Presumably not preceded by the word 'Waffen'? Pete. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gareth Davies Posted 19 April , 2018 Share Posted 19 April , 2018 Try SS135 and/or SS143 from 1817 onwards. There is a group that might be of interest: https://www.wlv.ac.uk/research/institutes-and-centres/centre-for-historical-research/football-and-war-network/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fattyowls Posted 19 April , 2018 Share Posted 19 April , 2018 2 minutes ago, Gareth Davies said: There is a group that might be of interest: https://www.wlv.ac.uk/research/institutes-and-centres/centre-for-historical-research/football-and-war-network/ Definitely of interest, thanks Gareth. Pete. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gareth Davies Posted 19 April , 2018 Share Posted 19 April , 2018 33 minutes ago, Fattyowls said: I think the only course open to you is to fill one chamber of the service revolver and go and do the decent thing......... No problem Gareth, the reference alone is of value, thanks for looking. Just one further question for the mnemonically challenged - what's SS? Presumably not preceded by the word 'Waffen'? Pete. Stationery Series. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b3rn Posted 17 April , 2019 Share Posted 17 April , 2019 Ritchie, like you I was intrigued by mention of the Dardanelles Cup. I pieced together the tournament as best I could, and wrote an article for The Gallipolian that was published in its Autumn 2017 journal. This is my working spreadsheet. Any additions/corrections welcomed!https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Qxq6PfnHugWOManzLljbqyE0G8TSgJosBbrCQsEVrko/edit?usp=sharing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BullerTurner Posted 17 April , 2019 Share Posted 17 April , 2019 On 18/04/2018 at 21:55, Fattyowls said: I would be extremely interested in a reference Gareth; I'm not usually a fan of Niall Ferguson* but one quote of his that I liked was that the British Army was obsessed with football. Pete. *on a scale of 1 to Dan Snow what do you think? About 7? The obsession with football by troops still persists. Some mornings I would fall in my squadron for half an hours physical training. They would bitch and whinge as we did exercises and ran two miles. Then having shown the body-language of chronic fatigue sufferers for half an hour, they would suddenly rise like Lazarus when the spheroid was introduced! I did vary the diet with touch rugby but it never caught on with them the same way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fattyowls Posted 17 April , 2019 Share Posted 17 April , 2019 (edited) 10 hours ago, BullerTurner said: The obsession with football by troops still persists. Some mornings I would fall in my squadron for half an hours physical training. They would bitch and whinge as we did exercises and ran two miles. Then having shown the body-language of chronic fatigue sufferers for half an hour, they would suddenly rise like Lazarus when the spheroid was introduced! I did vary the diet with touch rugby but it never caught on with them the same way. Thanks BT; I have an interest in the Scots Guards who conscripted three members of the English champions of 1914-15 and included football reports in their war diaries as mentioned above, so this fits in with a long tradition as you say. I have recently joined WW2Talk and found a post about a tournament in postwar Germany featuring the Scots Guards too. B3m's rather splendid spreadsheet adds a serious chunk of evidence too. That where they managed to find pitches at Helles is remarkable in itself, I was under the impression that nowhere was out of range of the Turkish artillery. Pete. P.S. British troops bitching and whinging? Surely not....... Edited 17 April , 2019 by Fattyowls Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b3rn Posted 17 April , 2019 Share Posted 17 April , 2019 3 hours ago, Fattyowls said: That where they managed to find pitches at Helles is remarkable in itself, I was under the impression that nowhere was out of range of the Turkish artillery. That’s right. One pitch was a sloping field off Gully Ravine not under direct observation but in range, another behind Hunter-Weston Hill on flatter ground (the forward aviation ground). For that, a trench newspaper notes the Turks have a grandstand view! My favourite line is the phlegmatic description of one tie as “game uninterrupted by shellfire”. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mancpal Posted 18 April , 2019 Share Posted 18 April , 2019 I have an IWM book at home which tells of the 22nd Manchesters playing a match in France which they chose to complete regardless of the attention of German artillery. I can't off hand remember which regiment they were playing or the score. I'd imagine in an environment of frequent extreme danger there may have been an attitude of them being at little more risk playing sport as opposed to being bombarded in a trench. Simon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BullerTurner Posted 18 April , 2019 Share Posted 18 April , 2019 14 hours ago, Fattyowls said: Thanks BT; I have an interest in the Scots Guards who conscripted three members of the English champions of 1914-15 and included football reports in their war diaries as mentioned above, so this fits in with a long tradition as you say. I have recently joined WW2Talk and found a post about a tournament in postwar Germany featuring the Scots Guards too. B3m's rather splendid spreadsheet adds a serious chunk of evidence too. That where they managed to find pitches at Helles is remarkable in itself, I was under the impression that nowhere was out of range of the Turkish artillery. Pete. P.S. British troops bitching and whinging? Surely not....... That’s when you know their morale is still good. It’s when they go quiet you need to worry! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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