Coldstreamer Posted 18 April , 2018 Share Posted 18 April , 2018 Hello I have this ledger book of men who served in the Coldstream Guards 4th battalion. The first (complete) date shows when and why the man left the battalion but I have no idea what the remaining numbers relate to. Any thoughts ? Cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ss002d6252 Posted 18 April , 2018 Share Posted 18 April , 2018 Safe to say the lower number is the year , as to the top number... What does the column headers say ? Craig Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coldstreamer Posted 18 April , 2018 Author Share Posted 18 April , 2018 the year was about all I could get from it column headers, that would have been far to easy - there are none, and the ledger, like many things in the archives, has no title no numbers I have seen go into 3 figures as not days of the year ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coldstreamer Posted 18 April , 2018 Author Share Posted 18 April , 2018 Elijah Bishops papers are on ancestry 56/16 would be the 25th February 1916 - nothing in his papers for that date - he was on active service. i wondered once if they are leave dates but again that makes no sense Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ss002d6252 Posted 18 April , 2018 Share Posted 18 April , 2018 19 minutes ago, Coldstreamer said: the year was about all I could get from it column headers, that would have been far to easy - there are none, and the ledger, like many things in the archives, has no title no numbers I have seen go into 3 figures as not days of the year ? I was thinking the same over the 3 digits - I'd guess that the top number is the number of days in the year that something had happened - training or sick ? Craig Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coldstreamer Posted 18 April , 2018 Author Share Posted 18 April , 2018 but why are none over 2 digits ? it makes no sense (thank you mr ledger writer!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coldstreamer Posted 18 April , 2018 Author Share Posted 18 April , 2018 so far 64 is the highest number Ive seen looking at the back its got the officers listed too and also a handful of men from other regiments Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Black Posted 20 April , 2018 Share Posted 20 April , 2018 (edited) Could the numbers above the years indicate a CCS in France that they were in that year? There were only 64 of them. Or... the number of consecutive days the man was out of the line wounded, during the year concerned. Mutiple entries for the same year meaning seperate woundings. Just ideas. Derek. Edited 20 April , 2018 by Derek Black Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin RussT Posted 21 April , 2018 Admin Share Posted 21 April , 2018 18 hours ago, Derek Black said: Could the numbers above the years indicate a CCS in France that they were in that year? There were only 64 of them. Or... the number of consecutive days the man was out of the line wounded, during the year concerned. Mutiple entries for the same year meaning seperate woundings. Just ideas. Derek. A few of the men listed in post #1 have service records. Tantalisingly, 14813 Balance was in No 9 Hospital (see 1st image), so a possibility it is the Hospital number (notwithstanding that I don't think there was a No 64 Hospital !). However, the record for 14740 Burridge shows he was in 5 CCS and No 2 General Hospital (see 2nd image), so this appears to discount the number being a CCS or a Hospital number. As Derek notes, perhaps the number refers to the number days the man was struck off the strength of the Battalion. Russ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coldstreamer Posted 21 April , 2018 Author Share Posted 21 April , 2018 Keep the ideas coming. I'll email an ex archivist who might have an idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin DavidOwen Posted 21 April , 2018 Admin Share Posted 21 April , 2018 Do the numbers vary much across the ledger in respect of the same "year" (presumed lower number) or are they fairly close together as per the "16" entries in post 1? As Burridge and Burnham both have 54/16 and as they are very close in regimental number would it be a co-incidence if both their sick days amounted to exactly the same? Is it possible using the war diaries to cross reference the regiment's location with that of the Casualty Clearing Stations or the casualty pathways to see which units a casualty may have passed through? If the number related to days struck off strength then 64 as a maximum seems a peculiar number as for the sake of argument 2 months would be at most 62 (July and August) and why would that be the cut off point, and if it were then having hit it there should be no subsequent entries as the soldier would presumably be permanently off strength by then? I think it must have something to do with the reason for why they were discharged or left the regiment as it would appear to me that it has been written retrospectively rather than contemporaneously as I would expect the ink and handwriting to differ much more. I will stop rambling now and wait to see what the real answer is! David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coldstreamer Posted 22 April , 2018 Author Share Posted 22 April , 2018 I'll post some more entries later. I have an officers papers, capt w e Hutchinson, so will look at him to see if I can work anything out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coldstreamer Posted 22 April , 2018 Author Share Posted 22 April , 2018 Hutchinson has an entry 12/17 He was off sick and back to England 18/10/16 and take off strength of the 4th btn on the 1/11/16 On the 20/10/16 he was posted to the reserve battalion which is where he remained until seconded to the Machine Gun Corps 21.2.18 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tullybrone Posted 22 April , 2018 Share Posted 22 April , 2018 Ian, Could it it be an Index to mentions of the personnel in Battalion orders? Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coldstreamer Posted 22 April , 2018 Author Share Posted 22 April , 2018 hutchinson closer up Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coldstreamer Posted 22 April , 2018 Author Share Posted 22 April , 2018 1 hour ago, tullybrone said: Ian, Could it it be an Index to mentions of the personnel in Battalion orders? Steve Ive no experience of using battalion orders so dont know - dont recall seeing any at RHQ but then Ive never looked for them... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin DavidOwen Posted 22 April , 2018 Admin Share Posted 22 April , 2018 1 hour ago, Coldstreamer said: hutchinson closer up So if he was invalided out of the battalion in 16 why an entry for 19? Also intrigued by the column immediately following their initials, might there be a clue (or red herring) there? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coldstreamer Posted 22 April , 2018 Author Share Posted 22 April , 2018 Let's solve one mystery at a time please Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tullybrone Posted 22 April , 2018 Share Posted 22 April , 2018 2 hours ago, Coldstreamer said: Ive no experience of using battalion orders so dont know - dont recall seeing any at RHQ but then Ive never looked for them... Just to expand on my index suggestion Ian.... As you've said the ledger doesn’t appear to have been created contemporaneously - going by the same handwriting - perhaps if it is an index to Divisional/Brigade/Battalion orders it was created when the orders were being archived during the immediate post War period? No doubt they’ve been culled to destruction over the past 100 years... Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coldstreamer Posted 22 April , 2018 Author Share Posted 22 April , 2018 The column after their initials - they are between 1 and 4 - from memory the btn had 4 companies, Im pretty sure thats what it relates to but will try to find someone to cross reference this theory to Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coldstreamer Posted 22 April , 2018 Author Share Posted 22 April , 2018 hmm. Looking at the officers notes and comparing to the war diary 2Lt Howard was posted to #4 coy 28.8.5, he is noted with a #1 - maybe is the last coy served in ? Brenchley has a #2 and was killed in action with #2 coy. Treffrey was died of wounds (died same day) , he has a #3 and was 3 coy Maybe a small sample but the 4th btn had very few officers and it was, compared to the 1st 2nd 3rd, much safer with much fewer casualties Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin DavidOwen Posted 22 April , 2018 Admin Share Posted 22 April , 2018 1 hour ago, Coldstreamer said: The column after their initials - they are between 1 and 4 - from memory the btn had 4 companies, Im pretty sure thats what it relates to but will try to find someone to cross reference this theory to 1 hour ago, Coldstreamer said: hmm. Looking at the officers notes and comparing to the war diary 2Lt Howard was posted to #4 coy 28.8.5, he is noted with a #1 - maybe is the last coy served in ? Brenchley has a #2 and was killed in action with #2 coy. Treffrey was died of wounds (died same day) , he has a #3 and was 3 coy Maybe a small sample but the 4th btn had very few officers and it was, compared to the 1st 2nd 3rd, much safer with much fewer casualties My apologies for the detour! Back to CCS this link appears in many threads and it gives the locations and dates for each of them (I think a spreadsheet project may be looming!) - don't know if it could be tied into the war diary and battalion locations? http://www.vlib.us/medical/CCS/ccs.htm David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coldstreamer Posted 22 April , 2018 Author Share Posted 22 April , 2018 (edited) I'm going to look for someone who has only a 15 entry. As btn went to war August 15 so might be able to prove or disprove the ccs bit as a shorter time span to look at Edited 22 April , 2018 by Coldstreamer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tullybrone Posted 22 April , 2018 Share Posted 22 April , 2018 7 hours ago, Coldstreamer said: The column after their initials - they are between 1 and 4 - from memory the btn had 4 companies, Im pretty sure thats what it relates to but will try to find someone to cross reference this theory to Ian, IIRC Pioneer Battalions were reduced to 3 companies when Brigades went down from 4 Battalions to 3 in 1918 so if you see a 4 in the second column for a 1918 posting into the Battalion it likely won’t refer to Company Number. Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coldstreamer Posted 22 April , 2018 Author Share Posted 22 April , 2018 quick scan and there are def fewer 4s there which makes sense. Will see if any are for 1918 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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