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Northumberland Fusiliers and Labour Corps


Katrina

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Hi I'm trying to locate an entry in the Saint Georges Gazette that references my Great Grandfather Lawrence Tomlinson Private 1265 in July 16. The reference to him being wounded (specifically gunshot wound chest, hand -right and leg - left is also referenced in WW1 Medical Records held by the National Archives on 17/06/17) but there's a reference to his place of residence being Harrogate. I'm trying to determine if this is a home address or perhaps the location of the hospital he may be convalescing in. Can anyone help?

Many thanks

Katrina

 

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do his papers exist to confirm address?

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Katrina,

 

Sorry can’t help but can you include Northumberland  Fusiliers and Labour Corps in your topic title to alert Regimental specialists. Graham Stewart is Forum NF expert.

 

Have you searched for him on FMP as there is an extensive NF database (created by Graham) there which does include mentions of soldiers in the Regimental magazine St George’s Gazette.

 

Good Luck

 

Steve

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Hi 

Many thanks for your reply. I'm a total novice to all military references so please forgive any glaring mistakes I make. In reply to Coldstreamer thanks for replying I have no papers for him if by this you mean enlistment papers. The reference to his enlistment come from a transcript which lists it's source the Newcastle Cronicle and Irish Heros book.

In reply to Steve many thanks for your help. I will re post with Northumberland Fusiliers and Labour Corps as a title. I do believe it's probably Graham who'll be able to help me as it's on Findmypast that the entry I refer to (SGG) that I'm trying to determine the 'residence' issue.

Kind regards

Katrina

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1 hour ago, Katrina said:

The reference to him being wounded

I suspect these are two different  incidents.

The 1916 one appears in the local papers c 29/7/16 with home town or place of enlistment as Harrogate.

The 1917 record is June 1917 and as you say this shows detail of wounds and that he was being shipped back to UK for convalescence via HM Hospital Ship Brighton.

Charlie

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Hi Charlie

Yes duh I'm not reading my information correctly two separate incidents as you rightly say. Very interestingly for me you say the 1916 one in the local paper is citing his place of enlistment as Harrogate. According to another transcription I have, he enlisted in Durham. My Great Grandmother 'misplaced' him after the war and we basically only had the suspicion he originally came from the Ripon area. Do you know if it was the families that informed the papers of what was happening with their loved ones?

Many thanks for your reply though

Regards

Katrina

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54 minutes ago, Katrina said:

his place of enlistment

Katrina, As I understand it for the Casualty Lists the place of residence is quoted but if not available then the place of enlistment.

 

Families did indeed send notices or copies of letters to the lacal papers but the lists of casualties that quote service numbers  will have come from the War Office.

 

Charlie

Edited by charlie962
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23 hours ago, Katrina said:

Hi

I'm trying to clarify an entry for my Great Grandfather Lawrence Tomlinson 1265/584058 which I found on the Findmypast website (transcribed by Graham Stewart). It references him from the Saint Georges Gazette as wounded in July 16 unfortunately Battalion unknown but my real interest is in his place of residence which is listed as Harrogate. As my Great Grandfather enlisted from 12 Church Street in Durham (transcribed by Graham sourced from IH and NC) I'm wondered if this could indicate where he went after the war. Equally I wonder whether it just could indicate the location of the hospital in which he was convalescing? Anyway just hoped someone might be able to help

regards

Katrina?

 

Hi Katrina - Well having looked at the results myself it appears that there has been a clerical error in either Irish Heroes or the Labour Corps Medal Rolls or both.

Irish Heroes has him as 1256 Pte L.Tomlinson serving with the 'C' Coy, 27th Bn, N.F., this would have been 27/1256 and the Durham City address would have been taken from the Newcastle Chronicle. It also appears that he was transferred to the 26th Bn and became 26/1256. The Tyneside Irish fortunately had a numerical/alphabetical system and he falls into the 'T' section of the 26th Bn. However if he had been 27/1265 he would also have fallen into the 'T' listing of the 27th Bn!!!

Now he was never found in the Northumberland Fusilier Medal Rolls, which obviously indicated a transfer and so he was recently found by myself in the Labour Corps Medal Rolls - simply as 1265 Pte Lawrence Tomlinson and not 26/1256, which as you can see are two different numbers, with no Battalion indication in the Labour Corps Roll. Nor does his Medal Index Card indicate which battalion he served in.

As you will appreciate this leaves someone like myself with quandry in going through my Database to see if I have this man listed, and as you'll appreciate there are currently over 102,000 listed in the Database and if even when using a simple number search technique - and the same number doesn't appear - then you automatically assume you've found someone new to add to the list.

As for the Harrogate address in the St.Georges Gazette - these locations were generally "home" addresses and not Hospital locations, so one has to wonder, why Harrogate was given or again is it a clerical error?

As it stands I have four 1265 numbers in my list(including Tomlinson), but no indication as to which Battalions these men originally served with. It also leaves me with the problem of deciding if Lawrence was indeed 27/1256 - 27/1265 or 26/1256. Sadly his service documents which would have helped out, appear to have been destroyed.

Edited by Graham Stewart
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The June 1917 Hospital Admission for GSW has this number '27/1256' [Edit  27/1265 ] but this unit '22nd (Service) Battalion (3rd Tyneside Scottish)'

Charlie

Edited by charlie962
my transcription error !!
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Wow thanks guys all your help it is really gratefully appreciated. So let me start with the real basic information I have.....my grandmother's birth certificate. She was born March 1916 and her father was named as Lawrence Tomlinson and his occupation as Private 27th Northumberland Fusiliers formally mason's labourer . My grandmother' certificate stated the residence at birth was 34 Church Street, Durham. I have never found evidence of a marriage so not sure if Lawrence and my great grandmother ever actually lived together. So the fact that he appeared to enlist from 12 Church Street fits any number of senarios....all of them positive for me!

I assumed the number 27/1265 was the relevant one to Lawrence. This was simply based on the fact that the first transcription I came across listed him as 1265 and that was his medal index card that included his Labour Corp number 584058. As with the other transcripts I came across ....Forces war records web site which Charlie has kindly looked up the the June 1917 hospital admission (sorry not sure what GSW is?) but my transcription has 27/1265 as his number but the same 22nd (service) Battalion (3rd Tyneside Scottish). It was after these records I actually came across Graham's transcriptions with the tantalising Church Street mentioned and the switched numbers. I dismissed it as a clerical error and stuck with the original 1265. To my untrained eye the only 1256 number was recorded once in the four transcripts I had and I was convinced they were all referring to the same person.

As for the Harrogate address it ties 'my' Lawrence Tomlinson to the person I believe was him before and after the war. I think he basically was from Ripon and his residence in Durham was a brief one. After the war he appears to have been in residence in the Harrogate area and lived with his sister and her husband for over 10 years. This I think is why the residence changed. He was going back to his home as opposed to where he lived when he enlisted. 

I really can't thank you guys enough for your hard work. I know we can never be 100% certain with some of this stuff but I'm feeling warmed with the glow of so much circumstantial evidence.

Katrina

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Pleased you have made some progress😀

 

It’s unusual - and the course of the confusion - that his TI Battalion Number isn't recorded on either his MIC or Medal Roll - probably as they were compiled by the Labour Corps rather than NF record office.

 

Hopefully a LC expert may be able to give you a date of his transfer from TI from his LC Regimental Number.

 

You may want to consider getting (purchase/library) a copy of forum member John Sheen’s book about the history of the Tyneside Irish Brigade. It has an extensive nominal roll (presumably sourced from Graham Stewart’s database as they co authored the companion Tyneside Scottish Brigade History).

 

Steve

Edited by tullybrone
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Ah right of course gun shot wound. Duh straightforward when you think about it. Many thanks DJM. 

Steve I do have a copy of of the Tyneside Irish by John Sheen and it was the entry that gave me the enlistment information of 12 Church Street in Durham and the 26/1256  C 27comp information. 

Thanks again for the input guys.

Katrina

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22 hours ago, charlie962 said:

The June 1917 Hospital Admission for GSW has this number '27/1256' but this unit '22nd (Service) Battalion (3rd Tyneside Scottish)'

Charlie

Charlie - Now this is very interesting as this Hospital Admission has his "old" Battalion number, which is the number found in Irish Heroes and serving with the 22nd Bn, which is not unexpected, but again not mentioned in the Labour Corps Medal Rolls. So it appears that Labour Corps Records and possibly other sources, have made a monumental error, as to whom he was actually serving with and his regimental number.

What now throws a spanner in the works is that another 1256 in the 27th Battalion Rolls is named as Pte W. Suddick, who served in 'D' Company and falls into the alphabetical "S" section of the Battalion. He too was also admitted to Hospital with GSW to leg and to make matters worse he disappears off the radar completely and I can't even locate him through the MIC's. John located him through Medical records, but again he doesn't appear in the N.F. Medal Rolls.

Therefore would it be possible for you to forward me a copy of the Hospital Admission, which has Tomlinson, to look through??

I would dearly love to know what it says on the rim of his Medals.

Graham

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On 18/04/2018 at 20:59, charlie962 said:

My mistake. Appologies. It reads  27/1265

Thats brilliant - so it appears that Irish Heroes were to blame initially, when they put the wrong number to Tomlinson. This will now enable me to update my database - removing Tomlinson from the 26th Bn, placing him with his original unit, with the now correct number and additional information from the Admission List. Many thanks.

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