Conscription from pre WW1 Militia

[loujn]

Hi,

 

I am just rechecking a soldier I wrote up named John Collins, 1st Bat Sherwood Foresters Pte 7029  and I'm not convinced I've understood this right so just want to check with you all......

 

John signed up for his local Militia the 3rd Derby Reg in 1901 to serve for 6 years (I am taking that to mean that he was a "part time" soldier who still took on his normal employment as a coal miner).

 

His obituary says 

"Pte. John Collins had served eight years in the Army 

and four years in the Reserve when the war broke out

and the call came for Reservists and Volunteers.

He was called up on August 5th, 1914, and was 

drafted to Sunderland as a signal instructor, where

he stayed two years, when he volunteered for France"

 

My question is - Would John have automatically been conscripted on the outbreak or WW1? and was he classed as a reservist having been in the Militia?

 

Thank you in advance.

 

Louise

 

 

[tullybrone]

Hi Louise,

 

It’s  difficult to give a precise answer answer based on the newspaper article but I’ll have a go until an expert comes along.....

 

3rd Derby would be a Militia Battalion so you are correct that it was a part time unit. Do you know whether he served his full term? I don’t have access to FMP who should have his militia Attestation forms.

 

Militia units were disbanded in 1908 and serving personnel could transfer to the new Territorial Army Battalions. If John Collins reenlisted into the Militia for an additional four years in 1907 he would’ve likely transferred to the TA successor Battalion to 3rd Derby Militia Battalion. That would be another part time unit. He could have extended his service for another 4 years in 1911.

 

However the wording in the press cutting suggest he had previous full time regular army service before the outbreak of the war - 8 years full time colour service and 4 years in the Reserve (liable to recall on the outbreak of a war).

 

The article wording is quite loose in that if he had completed his 4 years on the Reserve he would’ve fulfilled his 12 year term of engagement before war was declared in August 1914 and would not have been liable to recall unless he had previously extended his service as a Class D reservist.

 

There was no conscription at the start of the war. It was introduced in 1916.

 

Looking at your specific 2 part question at the end of your post and applying my interpretation of the wording in the newspaper article -

 

IMHO If he was mobilised in August 1914 he was either a member of a Territorial Army Battalion or a regular army reservist recalled to his regiment. As the article doesn’t mention he was a Special Reservist we can possibly discount he was mobilised as a Special Resrvist.

 

Based on the information in the below link I’d suggest that he probably enlisted into Sherwood Foresters (Regular Army) as Pte 7029 from 3rd Derby Militia in 1901/1902 based on his Regimental Number and had extended his service as a Class D reservist.

 

http://armyservicenumbers.blogspot.co.uk/2011/08/sherwood-foresters-1st-2nd-battalions.html

 

If I was you I would amend your topic title to Private 7029 John Collins, Notts & Derby Regiment to attract a Regimental expert who may have a more detailed insight than my “amateur” observations.

 

Good Luck

 

Steve

 

 

Edited 17 April , 2018 by tullybrone

[Chris_Baker]

I would guess that he re-enlisted into the regular army soon after completing his initial full time training with the Militia. That was a very common practice.

 

 

... and indeed his Militia record (which you can find in National Archives series WO96 and online at Findmypast) says he re-enlisted on 7 August 1901. His Militia number was 8430.

Edited 17 April , 2018 by Chris_Baker

[loujn]

Thank you to both Steve and Chris for your explanation's and help.

 

I do have his service record on FMP but i am very poor at reading and interpreting the information in them i'm afraid.  

 

So to check i am understanding you correctly he -

 

Enlisted with the 3rd Derby Militia on 8th July 1901, carried out his militia training and then a month later on 7th August 1901 re-enlisted into the regular army - thus becoming a full time soldier? 

 

Would his militia training be done locally ie an odd evening / day a week or would he literally go to camp for a months training?

 

Sorry to ask so many questions!

 

Thank you again your help is most appreciated.

 

 

[tullybrone]

Hi,

 

I‘ll defer to Chris Baker’s expert opinion in his post re full time training rather than part time. I’d say he would go to the Regimental Depot for that training.

 

Steve

 

PS

 

Have you looked for him on the South Africa -  Boer - War Medal rolls? 1st Battalion were serving in South Africa and he may have gone over as a reinforcement in early 1902 after his period of recruit training was completed.

[loujn]

27 minutes ago, tullybrone said:

Have you looked for him on the South Africa -  Boer - War Medal rolls? 1st Battalion were serving in South Africa and he may have gone over as a reinforcement in early 1902 after his period of recruit training was completed.

 

I haven't no, ill go and take a look now.

Edit... no hes not on the FMP Boer War Medal Rolls

Edited 17 April , 2018 by loujn
additional info

[BRONNO]

He won the 2nd Battalion (Sherwood Foresters) inter Company Signallers Shield in 1907 when he was with "G" Company. He was posted and joined the 1st Battalion on the 20th August 1916, died of wounds in the attack near Bellewaarde Lake 1st August 1917. BRONNO.

[loujn]

 

Hi Bronno, firstly - so sorry, I hadn't seen this reply!  so thank you very much for taking the time and finding this information out.  

 

On 28/04/2018 at 14:24, BRONNO said:

He won the 2nd Battalion (Sherwood Foresters) inter Company Signallers Shield in 1907 when he was with "G" Company.

 

This is fab detail!! Can i ask where you found this information please?

 

Also, any idea's of how I can follow this up and find out more about the competition or anything else please - would be nice to see if I can find out more detail as I am in contact with some of the John Collins ancestors.

 

Thank you again for your time and apologies for not replying earlier.

 

Regards,

Louise