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Help with a Northamptonshire Regiment soldier please


Harboro Lives
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Liz Harris shared a link.

I'm struggling to find a page on the Lives of the First World War site for one of my casualties. I've found the cwgc record - https://www.cwgc.org/find-war-de…/casualty/…/jobson,-arthur/

 

 - which gives the service number of Arthur Jobson as 31080 in the Northants Regiment. Searching LOTFWW there is an Arthur Jobson in the Northants Regiment but with a service number of 661, taken from the Medal Cards and a Medal Cards Index transcription: Mentions in Despatches, Meritorious Service Medals and Territorial Force Efficiency Medals
Record set Britain, Campaign, Gallantry & Long Service Medals & Awards . 
A search on Lives with NUMBER 661 only produces the two above records, whereas a search with 31080 produces cwgc and Soldiers Died in the Great War records - unfortunately no service records. 
From old newspaper reports, this was a time expired soldier who re-enlisted. I am wondering if these two service numbers relate to the same soldier? Does anyone have a suggestion or solution as to whether this is one or two different men?

 

1918 newspaper report: 
The death in action is reported of another Desborough soldier, Pte. Arthur Jobson, of the 1st Battalion, Northants Regt. The deceased soldier was very much liked in the town, and was a well-esteemed member of the Conservative Club. He was an old Territorial, and was awarded the long service medal before the war. When war broke out he was still in the “Terriers,” and went to Gallipoli, and afterwards to Egypt. Being a time-expired man, he received his discharge and started work again at his old shop – Messrs. Riley Ltd. But the Conscription Act again found him in the Army. 

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His war gratuity was paid in 2 parts due a supplementary correction - this is sometimes because a further period of service was discovered.
 

The net payments were £7 10s and £8 10s so £16 - this would be £20 gross - for 42 months qualifying service.
 

42 months by 20 April 1918 would indicate enlistment no later than 21 October 1914 if it was continuous service - this leaves scope for a break in service of a couple of months during the war and still allow for the same war gratuity.


Craig

Edited by ss002d6252
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The No. 661 would have been issued in April 1908 (and is low enough to be one of the men transferred from the old Volunteers before the formation of the Territorial Force in 1908). It is likely that he extended his Territorial enlistment by one year in April 1912 when his normal Term of Enlistment expired and then each year until April 1914 when he would have extended it to April 1915. One year was then added to the enlistment due to being in war time taking his time of discharge up to April 1916. At that time (still being before automatic conscription under the Military Service Act in June 1916) he would have been given the choice of re-enlisting for the duration (with a Bounty awarded) or taking a discharge with possible conscription at a later point. He took the discharge option on 19-4-1916.

 

No. 31080 falls in the middle of a group of men transferred from the 3/4th (Reserve) Bn. of the Northamptonshire Regiment to the Regular army and renumbered (due to them moving from Northamptonshire Regiment Territorial to Northamptonshire Regiment Regular). This was done on 28 November 1916 at No. 17 Infantry Base Depot upon arrival in France (via Folkestone). He would have enlisted / re-enlisted or been conscripted at some point before that. If this is No. 661 Arthur Jobson then, Having already served overseas, there would have been little or no training needed. As Craig mentions a couple of months break may have been all he got.

 

Both the numbers do seem to fit with it being one man, but I don't have proof to hand.

 

I don't know how this would fit with his Gratuity, etc. Craig will have to offer advice as to whether this is possible.

 

 

Steve.

Edited by Stebie9173
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The war gratuity split would certainly be consistent with Steve's dates where the man was serving from the outbreak of war.

 

Craig

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Assuming that this is the same man the dates of service may fall as follows:

 

(The best fit for the man that I can see from other records is Arthur Jobson, born in early 1883 at Desborough, son of Josiah and Ann Jobson)

  • 1902 - Enlisted in the Volunteers at age 19 (standard age for enlistment as a young man)
  • 1908 - April; transferred to the Territorial Force - new Terms of enlistment (normally 4 years but probably serving an extension of Volunteer service); allocated new No. 661
  • Between 1909-1912 - April; end of run-over of Volunteer Corps service to T.F. terms; extended by 1 year
  • 1911 - Appears at home in civilian job on 1911 Census due to part-time service of Territorials
  • 1913 - April; extended terms again to April 1914
  • 1914 - April; extended terms again to April 1915
  • 1914 - August 5th; mobilised (embodied) for full-time service; signed Imperial Service Obligation at some point posted to 1/4th Battalion for overseas duty
  • 1914 - April; eligible for the Territorial Force Efficiency Medal; criteria of 12 years service (war service counted double but not applicable here); some of his eligibility would have been carried over from the Volunteer days when he would have been accruing towards the 20 years required for the Volunteer Long Service Medal.
  • 1915 - April; terms automatically extended to April 1916
  • 1915 - July 29; embarked to Gallipoli with 1/4th Battalion aboard HT Royal George
  • 1916 - January; left Gallipoli and moved to Alexandria in Egypt
  • 1916 - April; returned to the UK for discharge
  • 1916 - April 19; discharged
  • 1916 - Summer; mobilised under conscription; allocated a new T.F. number, unknown
  • 1916 - November 28; to France via Folkestone to No. 17 Infantry Base Depot at Etaples
  • 1916 - November; posted to 1st Battalion; allocated new number 31080
  • 1918 - April 20; Killed in action with 1st Battalion at Givenchy-en-Gohelle

 

Steve.

Edited by Stebie9173
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Thank you both, Steve and Craig for your help with Arthur Jobson. 

As one of you said, there isn’t another candidate in Desborough for this man; I therefore felt I was looking at the same man but didn’t have the knowledge to piece it together. Your experience has done that and I really appreciate your help.

I’m trying to build a community record of Desborough men who served on the LOTFWW website and some present a bigger challenge than others! 

 

In fact, I have another soldier mentioned in a newspaper report of whom I can find no trace. I’ll look it out later and post it, if you’re up for another challenge!

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1 hour ago, Harboro Lives said:

In fact, I have another soldier mentioned in a newspaper report of whom I can find no trace. I’ll look it out later and post it, if you’re up for another challenge!

Please do,

Craig

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I help out with the monthly publication - the Desborough Scrapbook, and all through the war years we have been running a series of old newpaper reports relating to Desborough including the war news from 100 years ago that month.

In the local papers for the week ending 24th May 1918 (probably Kettering Leader) is the following report: 

 

TERRITORIAL MISSING
News has come to hand from the War Office
to the parents of Pte. Percy Bugby, Northants
Regt., of Federation Avenue, Desborough, that
he has been posted as missing since the early
part of April. Pte. Bugby is only about 19
years of age, and was in the Territorials before
the war. He was sent out to France when only
17 years of age, but when the parents made a
complaint to the Army officials he was sent
back to England until he attained the age of
18. He has a brother, Sid Bugby, who has been
serving with the British Army in Flanders ever
since 1914, and although comparatively young
he has seen a lot of fighting, being very
fortunate up to the present.

 

I had found Sid Bugby - the reporter/editor has made an error with the surname - it is BUCKBY (as I expected, as this is a more common name for Desborough). 

He is Sidney (sometimes in the records Sydney) Charles Buckby, born 7/9/1896, 1st Northants, Service no 3/9825. You can see the page I have improved at LOTFWW at https://livesofthefirstworldwar.org/lifestory/580990 .

 

The mother was a widow by 1901 and remarried by 1911 so the 1911 census both boys are in the Underwood house, but listed as Buckby. 

I had access to the Desborough Infant School Admission Registers (originals at Desborough Heritage Centre) and Percy's date of birth is given as 10/6/1898. So he is with his family in Desborough in 1901 and 1911. I have checked the Medal Cards on Ancestry and can't come up with anything and am at a loss as to where to look next.

 

Do either of you have any sources of information that includes Percy Buckby?

 

Liz

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26 minutes ago, Harboro Lives said:

I help out with the monthly publication - the Desborough Scrapbook, and all through the war years we have been running a series of old newpaper reports relating to Desborough including the war news from 100 years ago that month.

In the local papers for the week ending 24th May 1918 (probably Kettering Leader) is the following report: 

 

TERRITORIAL MISSING
News has come to hand from the War Office
to the parents of Pte. Percy Bugby, Northants
Regt., of Federation Avenue, Desborough, that
he has been posted as missing since the early
part of April. Pte. Bugby is only about 19
years of age, and was in the Territorials before
the war. He was sent out to France when only
17 years of age, but when the parents made a
complaint to the Army officials he was sent
back to England until he attained the age of
18. He has a brother, Sid Bugby, who has been
serving with the British Army in Flanders ever
since 1914, and although comparatively young
he has seen a lot of fighting, being very
fortunate up to the present.

 

I had found Sid Bugby - the reporter/editor has made an error with the surname - it is BUCKBY (as I expected, as this is a more common name for Desborough). 

He is Sidney (sometimes in the records Sydney) Charles Buckby, born 7/9/1896, 1st Northants, Service no 3/9825. You can see the page I have improved at LOTFWW at https://livesofthefirstworldwar.org/lifestory/580990 .

 

The mother was a widow by 1901 and remarried by 1911 so the 1911 census both boys are in the Underwood house, but listed as Buckby. 

I had access to the Desborough Infant School Admission Registers (originals at Desborough Heritage Centre) and Percy's date of birth is given as 10/6/1898. So he is with his family in Desborough in 1901 and 1911. I have checked the Medal Cards on Ancestry and can't come up with anything and am at a loss as to where to look next.

 

Do either of you have any sources of information that includes Percy Buckby?

 

Liz

This looks like it might be him - a (negative) enquiry was made to the Red Cross - https://grandeguerre.icrc.org/en/File/Details/4199496/3/2/

 

Craig

Edited by ss002d6252
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The effects records show the above to be #123656 Percy Buckby, killed 21 March 1918 with the Machine Gun Corps. Mother was Sarah A Underwood (looks like she had remarried by Sep 1919).

 

Craig

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Read your first post and was looking at that!

Looks like Florence was his sweetheart, she only lived a couple of minutes from his mothers. 

 

Then I've seen your follow up - 

The "effects records" are the Soldiers Effects on Ancestry I assume? (Haven't a paid subscription there)

1911 England, Wales & Scotland Census Transcription

Bella Vista Rothwell Road Desborough, Desborough, Northamptonshire, England

First name(s) Last name Relationship Marital status Sex Age Birth year Birth place Occupation  
Peregrine Thomas Head Married Male 45 1866 Bath Som Corset Manufacture
Margaret Thomas Wife Married Female 43 1868 Manchester Lancs -
Arthur Thomas Son Single Male 20 1891 Manchester Lancs Mechanic
Florence Thomas Daughter Single Female 18 1893 Manchester Lancs Corset Manufacture
Frederick Thomas Son Single Male 16 1895 Manchester Lancs School
Ada Thomas Daughter - Female 11 1900 Manchester Lancs School
Ethel Thomas Daughter - Female 5 1906 Desborough Norths School
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But now I've found him, with your excellent help, on the cwgc - 

https://www.cwgc.org/find-war-dead/casualty/1578094/ 

listed as Percy Buckley. 

As LOTFWW seed data from cwgc and Medal Cards, I was on a loser with a name error and change of regiment.

https://livesofthefirstworldwar.org/lifestory/585398 

I'm pleased to be able to improve and correct another record and add to his home community. 

 

I do appreciate your help, another soldier found!

Liz

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