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zuluwar2006

WW1 GERMAN BAYONETS FROM MY COLLECTION

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zuluwar2006

an extremely rare unit marked sawback S 14 bayonet with flashguard [made after 1915], marked for the 12th Feldartillery Regiment.

Manufacturer is the firm of "Samson Werke".

Flashguards on S 14 bayonets are extremely rare and ONLY on sawback version of SAMSON WERKE firm, have been found unitl today [see Carter' s book, Volume II, pages 150]. 

This is the 1st Saxon Feldartillery Regiment, based on Dresden and Konigsbruck, started on 26.6.1620.

Saxon unit marked bayonets are extremely rare, if we consider that they covered only the 5-6% of the imperial german army on ww1. 

S 14 a.jpg

S 14 b.jpg

S 14 c.jpg

S 14 d.jpg

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zuluwar2006

a 84/98 plain bayonet with flashguard, 

manufacturer is BONTGEN & SABIN

no date on the edge spine

with rare unit marking FI.E [Flieger Ersatz mayebe????].

 

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Steve1871

Great find there "D". A double treat of Saxon and Reg't marked!

on S.14 bayonets, 'cross the pond here, seen several, no unit marked but very good, 2 excellent condition.guessing soldier bring backs, spending most the years packed away in chests. In Europe. Are they usually in rough condition? I would take a rough, worn but Saxon marked over a nicer unmarked,Thanks for the pics!

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zuluwar2006

STEVE

USUALLY IN EUROPE THE CONDITION IS ROUGHT, AS MOST OF THEM HAS A USE ON GARDENS OR STABLES OR WERE KEPT ON BASEMENTS, ABBANONED BY TIME AND PEOPLE.

VERY FEW CAN MEET IN VERY NICE CONDITION.

S 14 SAWBACK WITH FLASHGUARD, IS VERY RARE FROM ITSELF.

WITH UNIT MARKINGS AND EXPECIALLY SAXON MARKED, EXTREMELY RARE....

P.S. STEVE, I AM DISCUSSING ADOPTION AS WE SPEAK WITH MY WIFE :)

REGARDS

D.

 

 

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Steve1871

Am well mannered, toilet trained, just lock me in a room with a collection and I will have fun for hours and hours😃😁😆!!

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zuluwar2006

DONNE!!!!!

FROM TODAY, YOU ARE ADOPTED FROM ME!!!!!

"TOILED TRAINED", I AM STILL LAUGHING....:lol:

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zuluwar2006

a very rare naval unit marked [same unit markings and on scabbard] 98/05 bayonet.

plain model, nA with flashguard.

Date is W 17.

I.M.A.A. [I Matrosen Artillerie Abteilung].

Very rare unit marking and same om crossguard and scabbard.

 

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zuluwar2006

an M 71 with sawback.

unfortunately the seller when cleaning it, erased all the markings, except the unit markings on the crossguard.

the unit marking is for Garde Regiment Sanitas [G.R.S.], or Garde Regiment Schutze Abteilung

an extremely rare unit marking in any case.

The sawback M 71 were for the 6% of the army and only for officers 

 

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zuluwar2006

a very rare ersatz chassepot bayonet

converted to fit the gewehr 88 rifle.

the back of the muzzle ring, facing the hilt, milled out to a depth of 1,5 mm leaving a curve edge to the ring, which then fitted over the muzzle and against the barrel jacket.

the first 33 mm of the hilt's back, measured from the crossguard, was machined concave to match the curve of the barrel jacket.

the next 25 mm was stepped down and the last 50 mm was machined down even further, to give the T-shaped attachment groove a depth of only 6,5 mm.

These alterations allowed the crossgyard to fit the muzzle, the back of the hilt to sit close against the barrel jacket, and the pommel to slide over the gewehr 88 short attachment bar.

BUT in this case, the french press stud would still not clip into position [the french hilt was too short]. 

This problem was overcome by removing the rivet, securing the steal leaf spring  and by then cutting an aditional hole throught the brass, to take a steel extention with a new catch. 

The original press stud was ground to remove  its catch and then replaced in position with the original spring.

thus the original stud and spring were retained but operated a new catch placed closer to the pommel.

this convertion was made during  the early part of the ww1. 

 

chassepot 1.jpg

chassepot 2.jpg

chassepot 3.jpg

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zuluwar2006

an extremely rare transitional 98/05 aA with flashguard, with unit markings for A.F. Regiment.

Transitional models of 98/05 are extremely rare, if you can find them with unit markings, as they all were made during ww1.

this model has a flashguard, but also is the aA model, so manufactured on early 1915.

War time unit marking, for a rare bayonet. 

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zuluwar2006

A 98/05 aA PLAIN BAYONET

Manufacturer = ERFURT

A.T.A. = Armee Telegraph Abteilung

Very rare unit marking

Date on the spine of the blade, W 06.

Bought from France for 110 euros.

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Steve1871

Try educate myself here.The 98/05 is very well known

I guessing create the blade 1905.. Over 90% have Cross Guard

with cut off. Seldom you will find a "High Ear" 98/05 

 

So what the story????? What early bayonets did the cross guards

come from and does that mean huge amounts of a earlier bayonet 

were scraped???

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zuluwar2006

STEVE,

at the beginning of war, the S 98/05 aA, was found to have the defect when it was fixed on Karabiner 98.

The hilt, projecting past the muzzle, received a considerable ammount of flash, when the gun eas fired and according to some reports, the wood grips were actually blown off or charred.

this design fault had not been noticed during peacetime, when rifle practicing was udually undertaken without fixed bayonets.

All the german service patterns with wood grips, issued witht eh karabiner 98, were affected, and in order to provide protection against muzzle flash steel guards were introduced.

On the 3 September 1915, the war ministry in Berlin, supplied instructions for their fitting and requested that all units equipped with karabiner 98 and S 98 or S 98/05 bayonets, should have the flashguards put on by their armourers.

So, the old pattern [aA], usually transformed to nA, as flashguards fitted on the aA bayonets and raised the ears of the bayonets, and the edges rounded.

On 164 Infantry Regiment, the armourers fitted flashguards, but withour altering the ears of the bayonets. 

Those S 98/05 bayonets called transitional S 98/05 bayonets aA.

This is a very rare convertion on S 98/05 aA bayonets and very disereable on collectors.

The transitional bayonet S 98/05 nA, have the new modified crossguard with new ears, but have not flashguard.

I hope i was helpfull

Regards, D.

 

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Steve1871

Thanks for information and quick reply! 

On that Chassepot. WOW!!!!!!!😁😍!

That is as rare as my Bravarian PFM's double converted! Since you no collect the rifles to fit bayonets, Where you find the info?  We can NEVER have enough reference books!

Really a great piece

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zuluwar2006

Steve, 

i had the luck to meet Anthony Carter and to be a good friend of Roy Williams.

Roy was my mentor on searching infos about ww1 german bayonets.

AFTER MORE THAN 2 DECADES OF COLLECTING, I HAVE SOME EXPERIENCE ON THIS FIELD.

YOU CAN READ CARTER'S AND ROY'S BOOKS.

THOSE ARE COMPLETELY WORKS FOR WW1 GERMAN BAYONETS.

I DO NOT COLLECT RIFLES, AS IS DIFFICULT, IF NOT IMPOSSIBLE,  TO IMPORT THEM, AFTER 9.11.  

IF I HAD THE ABILITY, I COULD GET AND A MACHINE GUN MG 08/15;)

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zuluwar2006

a very rare saxon unit marked ersatz bayonet

100th (1st Royal Saxon) Life Grenadiers

extremely rare to found an ersatz saxon marked bayonet

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zuluwar2006

an extremely rare in fine condition unit marked 98/05

this is the aA model, plain, date W 14.

129th (3rd West Prussian) Infantry

The 129th Infantry Regiment, was part of the XVII Army Corps.

The XVII Army Corps / XVII AK (GermanXVII. Armee-Korps) was a corps level command of the German Army before and during World War I.

As the German Army expanded in the latter part of the 19th century, the XVII Army Corps was set up on 1 April 1890 in Danzigas the Generalkommando (headquarters) for West Prussia. It took command of two divisions formed on the same date: 35th Division and 36th Division. It was assigned to the I Army Inspectorate,[1] which became the 8th Army at the start of the First World War.

XVII Corps served on the Eastern Front from the start of the war. It was still in existence at the end of the war[2] in the 7th ArmyHeeresgruppe Deutscher Kronprinz on the Western Front.

 

 

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zuluwar2006

two extrenely rare bayonets for comparison.

the pfm 71

and the bavarian M 1838 Infanterie Sabel bayonet.

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zuluwar2006

ersatz made socket bayonet with a nine groove

two piece cast brass hilt held by 3 rivets

this socket has a J on the crossguard

frakfurt stamps on the brass hilt and the blade

with a Liege made socket bayonet

extremely rare ersatz socket bayonet

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zuluwar2006

a very rare ersatz mosin nagant M 1891 bayonet, with uit marking n the socket collar

which is stamped = 9.B.3.IX.7

9th Bataillon, 3th Company, Landstrum Infantry Regiment, IX Army Corps, weapon number 7

unit marked examples of M 1891 Mosin Nagant ersatz bayoneyts, atre extremely rare

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zuluwar2006

a modified ersatz Vetterli Vittali bayonet M 180/87

on the crossguard Art.Dep.Magdb

very rare bayonet

i have 2 of them

 

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zuluwar2006

an extremely rare modification

a chassepot bayonet, with the back of the hilt machinned in one step for 32,5 mm approximately.

the depth of the machined is 2,1 mm

all inscriptions are ground off.

the yataghan blade has been converted to a straight blade.

exact lennght as a IS 71 bayonet.

mayebe had and an ersatz iron scabbard, as IS 71????

there is a very rare photo showing this modification and i will pos it soon on this topic.

the originality o this extremely rare convertion, is proofed by the marking on the crossguard

4.G.I I = Garde Regimetn zu Fuss, 2nd Bataillon

 

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Steve1871

O.K.,you got me beat,did you just get that?I do not see how you could straiten out a yatagan blade,you sure it not a new blade??Thanks for posting.go doctor tomorrow morning,still hurting

go bed now,thanks for pics

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zuluwar2006

absolutely original yatagan chassepot blade, which is modified to a straight one.

a very rare modification, of the hunreds made during ww1 from german army

this was found in germany and bought many many years before.

it has been examined by serious collectors and found it very interesting - unique piece.

no other example has been discovered, only a photo exists showing a cut down straight chassepot bayonet.

this can fit to M 71 rifle, and i am not sure if and at 71/84.

 

also, look at the fullers on the blade, you will see the originality.

 

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zuluwar2006
10 hours ago, zuluwar2006 said:

an extremely rare modification

a chassepot bayonet, with the back of the hilt machinned in one step for 32,5 mm approximately.

the depth of the machined is 2,1 mm

all inscriptions are ground off.

the yataghan blade has been converted to a straight blade.

exact lennght as a IS 71 bayonet.

mayebe had and an ersatz iron scabbard, as IS 71????

there is a very rare photo showing this modification and i will pos it soon on this topic.

the originality o this extremely rare convertion, is proofed by the marking on the crossguard

4.G.I I = Garde Regimetn zu Fuss, 2nd Bataillon

 

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AND HERE IS THE PHOTO I PROMISED.

IS THE SAME BAYONET, BUT WITH SHORT BLADE, AN UNSEEN UNTIL TODAY VARIATION ON GERMAN CONVERTED CHASSEPOT  BAYONETS.

LOOK AT THE SOLDIER KNEELIMG ON THE RIGHT, AS WE SEE THE PHOTOGRAPH.

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