AndyBsk Posted 19 November , 2020 Share Posted 19 November , 2020 Looks nice S98aA with Garde Grenadier Regt.5, 11.Company and weapon nr.23, the 11 company came to unit as part of III.Fusilier Battalion since 1913 from the wiki. the scabbard is a metall WW1 period replacement, i personally dont believe in original source were it called with various types as A.Carter did 70 years later? https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Garde-Grenadier-Regiment_Nr._5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve1871 Posted 20 November , 2020 Share Posted 20 November , 2020 hey Reinking71 Thanks, can you please start a new post of your own with your S98 here. Zuluwar2006 I am sure can help with your bayonet and scabbard as well as I. But your own post would help others to come to you on this bayonet/scabbard The Steel scabbards were called Ersatz or replacement, the original leather bodied scabbards were getting bent,seams splitting and leather bodies did not hold up as well. For collectors, Yes, it an extra treat to collect items that saw war and over 100 years old. On these scabbards/ steel what I know. The more common steel body has the pressed in “ lines” copying the leather bodies running most of the length, another with curving line connecting, plain version. I hope to have some of my pics sorted out in a day or so. Again, starting your own post with this bayonet, I already see 2 differences on your scabbard that I have not seen before, I know, can describe 5 or 6 types/ variations and again, Zuluwar2006 should be able to help even more. Looking forward to your post Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reinking71 Posted 20 November , 2020 Share Posted 20 November , 2020 Thank you, I will post anew thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trajan Posted 24 November , 2020 Share Posted 24 November , 2020 On 19/11/2020 at 15:51, Reinking71 said: Here are som more pics. Here are som more. The scabbard has a medium thick, flat, gray/black paint. That is a very nice early one with the one-piece grips and belonging to a young but prestigous unit also - Garde-Grenadier-Regiment Nr. 5, formed in 1897, marked according to the 1904 regulations. The majority of metal scabbards have two stamps on the head of the throat, one each side, so a better photograph would be appreciated. There were indeed six types, but nothing is known about these. Yours is typologically the earliest as it matches the original leather scabbard. They were all painted black, before the frog stud was attached. Excellent piece to have, my firend! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trajan Posted 24 November , 2020 Share Posted 24 November , 2020 1 minute ago, trajan said: That is a very nice early one with the one-piece grips and belonging to a young but prestigous unit also - Garde-Grenadier-Regiment Nr. 5, formed in 1897, marked according to the 1904 regulations. The majority of metal scabbards have two stamps on the head of the throat, one each side, so a better photograph would be appreciated. There were indeed six types, but nothing is known about these. Yours is typologically the earliest as it matches the original leather scabbard. They were all painted black, before the frog stud was attached. Excellent piece to have, my firend! Whoops! - didn't see the discussion had continued on the next page! Yes, where IS the edit function? Andy, as I said, I don't think anyone has properly researched these. There should be documentation somewhere! However, there is a clear difference in the 'imitation' leather ones like this and the other five types, one of which was made by FAG. What is needed is sombody to catalogue existing examples and see ehat inspector marks are present on the throat piece. I have seen it said that all 'original' metal ones as opposed to 'fakes' have inspection marks there, but one that I have which doesn't seem to be a copy/fake does not. Unfortunatlely, owing to COVID, as we live in a small flat I had to pack up my study and pack all of my bayonets away to give my younger son a work space otherwise I would show you mine... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reinking71 Posted 24 November , 2020 Share Posted 24 November , 2020 Thank you for the response. I started a separate thread and have a picture of the throat, no inspectors mark. There is the crown F inspector mark on the frog stud under the paint. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyBsk Posted 24 November , 2020 Share Posted 24 November , 2020 the mouth piece is clearly refinished so when there was something is gone. the only visible proof is on hook under paint. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trajan Posted 25 November , 2020 Share Posted 25 November , 2020 10 hours ago, AndyBsk said: the mouth piece is clearly refinished so when there was something is gone. the only visible proof is on hook under paint. Well spotted on that frog stud 'fraktur' mark Andy! So certainly an original. Julian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zuluwar2006 Posted 25 November , 2020 Author Share Posted 25 November , 2020 On 20/11/2020 at 07:31, Steve1871 said: hey Reinking71 Thanks, can you please start a new post of your own with your S98 here. Zuluwar2006 I am sure can help with your bayonet and scabbard as well as I. But your own post would help others to come to you on this bayonet/scabbard The Steel scabbards were called Ersatz or replacement, the original leather bodied scabbards were getting bent,seams splitting and leather bodies did not hold up as well. For collectors, Yes, it an extra treat to collect items that saw war and over 100 years old. On these scabbards/ steel what I know. The more common steel body has the pressed in “ lines” copying the leather bodies running most of the length, another with curving line connecting, plain version. I hope to have some of my pics sorted out in a day or so. Again, starting your own post with this bayonet, I already see 2 differences on your scabbard that I have not seen before, I know, can describe 5 or 6 types/ variations and again, Zuluwar2006 should be able to help even more. Looking forward to your post Steve thanks steve i will answer to our friend as soon as i feel better. for now, another 98/05 bayonet, plain this time, and with no scabbard. date W 15, for 1915, on the spine of edge of blade and with a steel flashguard. Model nA. WEYSBERG KIRSBHAUM is the manufacturer. B.2.J.E. ? .647 is the unit marking [i cannot say which is the missing number, as it is very faint]. A war time unit marking very rare. For 2nd Kgl. Bayer. Jager - Ersatz - Bataillon, number of weapon 647 a war time unit, so a very rare unit marking. i will post some more detailed photos soon. Regards D. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve1871 Posted 25 November , 2020 Share Posted 25 November , 2020 Bayer is for Bavarian but what is Kgl. ?? I am stumped on that one. Who knows how many unit marked 98/05 you have Demitrios. I do not think even you do. Scattered about, packed away. You will be “ finding” butchers for years. Nice piece I personally could not find 20+ bayonets, not all German, the last time I was home hope you are recovering well Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreyC Posted 25 November , 2020 Share Posted 25 November , 2020 Kgl=Königlich=royal GreyC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve1871 Posted 25 November , 2020 Share Posted 25 November , 2020 Thanks GrayC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreyC Posted 25 November , 2020 Share Posted 25 November , 2020 Glad I could be of help! GreyC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyBsk Posted 25 November , 2020 Share Posted 25 November , 2020 Should be Ersatz Abteilung , companie nr.2? not visible stamp from B.2.Jg.Battalion, formed from 3BJB in 1890. http://genwiki.genealogy.net/KB_Jäg.B_2(ex3) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zuluwar2006 Posted 25 November , 2020 Author Share Posted 25 November , 2020 1 hour ago, AndyBsk said: Should be Ersatz Abteilung , companie nr.2? not visible stamp from B.2.Jg.Battalion, formed from 3BJB in 1890. http://genwiki.genealogy.net/KB_Jäg.B_2(ex3) Andy I believe also is the number 2, but I am too excausted now to check it further. Refards D. 2 hours ago, Steve1871 said: Thanks GrayC GrayC is correct. This is a war time unit, so a very rare to find it, even rarer as it is Bavarian. Regards D. P. S. I tried the shots of whiskey, very nice Doctor Steve!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve1871 Posted 25 November , 2020 Share Posted 25 November , 2020 Doctor knows Best, as the saying goes😁🤪 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zuluwar2006 Posted 5 December , 2020 Author Share Posted 5 December , 2020 Dear friends, Today I had the best mood ever, since my accident. So, I ordered my wife to get all my books for ww1 german bayonets, and I made this list with the manufacturers, as well and the models each manufacturer made. Here is the first part of the list. Please any suggestions or pointing to mistakes, are wellcomed. Amberg, Königlische Bayerrische Gewehr-und Munitions Fabrik Amberg 1. Seitengewehr 71 2. Seitengewehr 98/053. KS 98 ____________________Anciens Etablissements Pieper Liège-Herstal - Seitengewehr 14____________________Anker-Werke Bielefeld - Seitengewehr 98/05____________________Bayard Liège-Herstal 1. Seitengewehr 142. Seitengewehr 84/98 nA____________________ J.H. Becker & Cie Solingen - Seitengewehr 98/05____________________ J.E. Bleckmann & Cie Solingen 1. Füsilier-Seitengewehr M 60 2. Artillerie-Seitengewehr M 71 3. Pionierfaschinenmesser M 65 4. Hirschfänger M 71 5. Seitengewehr M 71 6. Seitengewehr M 98/05____________________Böntgen & Sabin Solingen - Seitengewehr 84/98____________________E. Busch & Cie Solingen - Seitengewehr 98/05____________________Cito Cöln - Seitengewehr 98/05____________________Wilhelm Clauberg Solingen 1. Pionierfaschinenmesser M 71 Clemen & Jung, Solingen 1. Füsilier-Seitengewehr M 60 2. Artillerie-Seitengewehr M 71 3. Pionierfaschinenmesser M 71 4. Hirschfänger M 71 5. Seitengewehr M 71____________________Alexander Coppel & Cie Solingen 1. Füsilier-Seitengewehr M 60 2. Artillerie-Seitengewehr M 71 3. Pionierfaschinenmesser M 65 4. Pionierfaschinenmesser M 71 5. Hirschfänger M 71 6. Seitengewehr M 71 7. Seitengewehr 71/84 8. Kurzes seitengewehr 98 9. Seitengewehr 98 10. Seitengewehr 98/0511. IS M 69____________________J. Corts Sohn Remescheid - Seitengewehr 98/05____________________Coulaux & Co. Klingenthal - Seitengewehr M 71____________________DANZIG - Seitengewehr 84/98 aA____________________Deutsche Maschinenfabrik AG (Demag)Duisburg 1. Seitengewehr 84/98 2. Seitengewehr 98/05 3. Dolchbajonette____________________L.C Dietrich Altenburg - Seitengewehr 98/05____________________Dürkopp AG Bielefeld - Seitengewehr 98/05____________________Carl Eickhorn & Co. Solingen 1. Seitengewehr 98 2. Seitengewehr 98/05____________________Ferd. Esser & Cie. Elberfeld - Seitengewehr 98/05____________________Erfurt, Königlische Gewehr-und- Munitions Fabrik Erfurt 1. Pionierfaschinenmesser M 71 2. Seitengewehr M 71 3. Seitengewehr 71/84 4. Kurzes Seitengewehr 98 5. Seitengewehr 98 6. Seitengewehr 98/02 7. Seitengewehr 98/05 8. Seitengewehr 84/98____________________Fichtel & Sachs Scheinfurt - Seitengewehr 98/05____________________Frister & Rossmann berlin - Seitengewehr 98/05____________________Carl GALLE Solingen - Seitengewehr 98/05 ____________________C.G. Haenel Suhl 1. Seitengewehr 71/84 2. Kurzes Seitengewehr 98 3. Seitengewehr 98 4. Seitengewehr 98/02 5. Seitengewehr 98/05____________________G. Hammesfahr Solingen-Foche 1. Seitengewehr 84/98 2. Seitengewehr 98/05____________________Gebr. Hartkopf Solingen 1. Seitengewehr 84/98 2. Seitengewehr 98/05____________________Gebr. Heller Marienthal - Seitengewehr 84/98____________________J.A. Henckels Solingen 1. Seitengewehr 84/98 2. Seitengewehr 98/05____________________F.A. Herder & Sohn Solingen 1. Seitengewehr 84/98 2. Seitengewehr 98/05____________________Richard A. Herder, Solingen 1. Seitengewehr 84/98 2. Seitengewehr 98/05____________________Emil Hermes ERN Solingen - Seitengewehr 98/05____________________F.W. Höller Solingen - Seitengewehr 98/05____________________E. & F. Hörster Solingen 1. Seitengewehr M 71 2. Seitengewehr 71/84 3. Kurzes Seitengewehr 98 4. Seitengewehr 98 5. Seitengewehr 98/05 6. Seitengewehr 84/98____________________C. Jung Suhl - Pionierfaschinenmesser M 65____________________W. Jung & Söhne Solingen - Pionierfaschinenmesser M 65____________________H. KAUFFMANN & Sohn Indiawerk Solinge - Seitengewehr 98/05____________________Carl Kaiser & Cie. Solingen - Seitengewehr M 71____________________W.R. Kirschbaum & Co. Solingen 1. Pionierfaschinenmesser M 65 2. Pionierfaschinenmesser M 71 3. Hirschfänger M 71 4. Seitengewehr M 71____________________E.Knecht & Cie. Solingen 1. Kurzes Seitengewehr 98 2. Seitengewehr 98/05____________________F. Koeller & Cie., Solingen-Ohligs 1. Seitengewehr 84/982. Seitengewehr 98/05____________________P.D. Lüneschloss & Cie., Solingen 1. Pionierfaschinenmesser M 65 2. Pionierfaschinenmesser M 71 3. Hirschfänger M 71 4. Seitengewehr M 71 5. seitengewehr 71/84 6. Seitengewehr 98 7. Seitengewehr 98/05____________________Mauser-Werke AG, Oberndorf a. Necka - Seitengewehr 98/05____________________J. Mehlich AG Berlin - Seitengewehr 84/98____________________Möve-Werke Mühlhausen i. Thüringen 1. Seitengewehr 84/98 2. Seitengewehr 98/05____________________Mundlos & co Magdeburg 1.Seitengewehr 84/98 2. Seitengewehr 98/05____________________ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve1871 Posted 5 December , 2020 Share Posted 5 December , 2020 Am glad you are finally doing better. You have a large following from all your work and collecting. We have been worried. You are not fully recovered but this was a big step for you. Thanks, great list. I guessing you have OVER HALF of the 98/05 list, all UNIT marked!😁 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeyH Posted 6 December , 2020 Share Posted 6 December , 2020 Great that you are feeling better. Fascinating listing, keep them coming, also many thanks to your wife! Regards, Mike. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trajan Posted 6 December , 2020 Share Posted 6 December , 2020 Well, that's one hell of a listing! I had hoped once to get all the 98/05 makers but that plan fell by the wayside as school fees for the children gradially rose according to age as did inflation... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyBsk Posted 8 December , 2020 Share Posted 8 December , 2020 (edited) Zulu presented too much information, about producers ,most real influenced by F.Ruediger book, and extended by pieces of new information -personally dont known is reall that J.E.Bleckmann produced S98/05? as lastly produced S71, no reported S71/84, S98 -question is too about F.Herder Abr.Sn. production ? -in Carter Book is not mentioned the E.Knecht for S98/05, could be this was a Extra piece -there are missing numbers for letters above M -Pack Ohliger &Co -Simson&Cie, Suhl -both Weyersberg in that list WKC, Gebr.Weyersberg, Weyersberg&Co -V.C.Schilling Suhl Edited 19 December , 2020 by AndyBsk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zuluwar2006 Posted 11 December , 2020 Author Share Posted 11 December , 2020 Dear friends, Something to laugh with ourselves!!! Regards D. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve1871 Posted 12 December , 2020 Share Posted 12 December , 2020 Thank Demitrios, with all the corruption going on over here, I needed a Laugh😁 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zuluwar2006 Posted 25 December , 2020 Author Share Posted 25 December , 2020 An armed turkey destroys my Christmas dinner!!! Merry Christmas to all. Health, happiness, prosperity to each one of you and your families. Regards D. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeyH Posted 25 December , 2020 Share Posted 25 December , 2020 Demitrios, Happy Christmas to you and your family, and a brighter New Year. Mike. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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