WW1 GERMAN BAYONETS FROM MY COLLECTION

[trajan]

Yet another outstanding piece from your collection! Thanks for showing this. I have yet to see an Erstaz socket - or 'Erscoc' as some prefer - in Turkey. Plenty of the others, but none of these ones.

 

Julian

[zuluwar2006]

On 10/02/2019 at 23:02, zuluwar2006 said:

A sawback erased 98/05 NA bayonet with steel scabbard.

Manufacturer is Weyersberg & Co Solingen.

Date is W 17, for 1917.

This bayonet was a sawback model but erased the sawback and there is an inspection stamp on the erased sawback.

Unit marking is : A.R.115.2.54. 

This is for the 115th Feld Artillery Regiment - Rekrutendepot, 2nd compagnie, number of soldier 54.

Very rare to find a late war time unit marking and on sawback erased bayonet. 

 

Two more detailed photos from unit marking and sawback erased. 

Regards

D. 

[trajan]

Thanks D. - that one could not have seen much if any service before its sawback was removed! Which makes its unit-marking even odder! A rare piece there, my friend!

[Steve1871]

On the Combain conv., Say ART DEPT, no offence,but could that simply be ART DEPT.  of some university,theater dept,seeing other bayonets with unit marks,someone could have had the thought of putting ART DEPT on the guard as well??

[trajan]

16 hours ago, Steve1871 said:

On the Combain conv., Say ART DEPT, no offence,but could that simply be ART DEPT.  of some university,theater dept,seeing other bayonets with unit marks,someone could have had the thought of putting ART DEPT on the guard as well??

 

Hi Steve,

 

The lettering fits expected military size and style, so no, not likely.

[Gernika]

On 05/03/2019 at 22:19, Steve1871 said:

On the Combain conv., Say ART DEPT, no offence,but could that simply be ART DEPT.  of some university,theater dept,seeing other bayonets with unit marks,someone could have had the thought of putting ART DEPT on the guard as well??

 

 

Not saying this particular bayonet, but in the past Hollywood film companies had big weapons stores.

Guns and bayonets were marked with the Company stamp. I have seen MGM by Metro Goldwing Mayer and suspect there are any others.

[zuluwar2006]

An ersatz converted bayonet from Artellerieseitengewehr 71/98 with flashguard. 

This is originally an 71/98 bayonet which has added a flashguard. 

That is a conversion made on 1915. 

Also the bayonet has been shortened to be used like the 98/05 bayonet. 

Length for blade is 29, 10 cms. 

The scabbard is leather for 98/05 aA model. 

A very rare modification of a very rare bayonet. 

This is placed on section for ersatz bayonets, although this modification for 71/98 model started on 1911.

As this particular bayonet  has an added flashguard and shortened to be used like the 98/05 bayonet, we can assume that the blade was broken and the ARMOURER fit it for use like the 98/05 model. 

A very rare and unusual modification for a very rare bayonet. 

On the blade there is a date 73 with a crowned W, date for manufacture of this bayonet, 1873.

Fron the other side of the blade the name of the manufacturer Coulaux ... Klingental (not very well visible). 

 

[Gernika]

5 hours ago, zuluwar2006 said:

An ersatz converted bayonet from Artellerieseitengewehr 71/98 with flashguard. 

This is originally an 71/98 bayonet which has added a flashguard. 

That is a conversion made on 1915. 

Also the bayonet has been shortened to be used like the 98/05 bayonet. 

Length for blade is 29, 10 cms. 

The scabbard is leather for 98/05 aA model. 

A very rare modification of a very rare bayonet. 

This is placed on section for ersatz bayonets, although this modification for 71/98 model started on 1911.

As this particular bayonet  has an added flashguard and shortened to be used like the 98/05 bayonet, we can assume that the blade was broken and the ARMOURER fit it for use like the 98/05 model. 

A very rare and unusual modification for a very rare bayonet. 

On the blade there is a date 73 with a crowned W, date for manufacture of this bayonet, 1873.

Fron the other side of the blade the name of the manufacturer Coulaux ... Klingental (not very well visible). 

 

 

 

First time see one.

The longers  are relative scarce and with or without falshguard, but never seen a chopped one.

[trajan]

On 11/03/2019 at 11:24, zuluwar2006 said:

An ersatz converted bayonet from Artellerieseitengewehr 71/98 with flashguard. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Now that IS an odd one! Goes to prove the point that the German army was nowhere ready for war bayonet-wise in 1914-1915

[zuluwar2006]

An extremely rare bayonet for Remington Rolling Block Egyptian contract 1870 rifle, that was undelivered to Egypt. The bayonet with ribbed brass hilt with Deutschland marking on the pommel which is very rare for this model. 

Steel crossguard with full muzzle ring and adjusting screw. 

Steel yatagan blade with the knights head trademark on the ricasso [look at Roy Williams book for ersatz bayonets, number 760, page 479] . 

Maker is W. R. Kirsch baum. 

There is never recorded an unaltered such model with Deutschland marking on it. 

Also a unit marking LA 6, which is for the Feld Luftsciffer Abteilung (which make sense with the unit marking on the scabbard). It may read it and as Landwehr Feld Artillery Regiment. 

Unique bayonet and extremely rare to find with Deutschland marking. 

Also steel scabbard repainted with Ww1 german hook on it and with unit marking 1.L.II.2.3

for 1st Luftsciffer Bataillon. 

Edited 23 May , 2019 by zuluwar2006

[zuluwar2006]

An extremely rare Captured French 1874 Gras (EB 123). This has been extensively modified by adding a 71/84 style hilt to the original blade so as to fit the 98 Mauser (sword bayonet model 1874 with S 98 grip).  This quite scarce modification was made for Gewehr 88 or Kar 98. After discarding the scales the tang is cut on the middle.  A new pommel is brazed on the tang.  Two new scales similar to the model EB 115 are itted and fixed with twin screws.  A. D. HANNOVER on the hilt for Artillery Depot Hannover.

Overall Length - 649mm     Blade length - 516mm   blade width - 21mm

[Steve1871]

I wish you would do an Ersatz bayonet book!!!

With what you have (A Lot) rare and very rare. Make a "Standard" photo set, you could add pics on any piece, explain the photo set to the forum, / members so they could add the same way/ send to you.

  Each piece could have 10-15 or more pic's showing bayonet all views, markings, modifications,scabbards, frogs. Full color, HD

Pleeeeeeeese👍!

[trajan]

Yes, D., you have more than enough of the odd and rare EBayonets for a book there! Time to publish your collection?!

[zuluwar2006]

14 hours ago, Steve1871 said:

I wish you would do an Ersatz bayonet book!!!

With what you have (A Lot) rare and very rare. Make a "Standard" photo set, you could add pics on any piece, explain the photo set to the forum, / members so they could add the same way/ send to you.

  Each piece could have 10-15 or more pic's showing bayonet all views, markings, modifications,scabbards, frogs. Full color, HD

Pleeeeeeeese👍!

Hello Steve

Thank you for the nice words. 

Yes, this is a superb idea. 

This way we can make a collection of bayonets from different collectors and it can be used as a data base to all the forum members. 

Excellent idea indeed. 

How do you think we can start it??? 

Regards

D. 

[zuluwar2006]

10 hours ago, trajan said:

Yes, D., you have more than enough of the odd and rare EBayonets for a book there! Time to publish your collection?!

Julian hello. 

Thank you for your generosity!!! 

With your help and Steve also, as well and from other collectors, we can start to build a data base with photos and characteristics or different models and then we can public it as an ersatz bayonet guide or reference. 

Regards

D. 

[zuluwar2006]

This is my 4th and last 98/02.

A very rare 98/02 bayonet without scabbard.

Manufacturer is Erfurt.

Date is 1902.

Unit marking on the crossguard is R.P.XVIII.1.49.

For 1st Reserve Pioneer Bataillon of the 18th Army Korps. 

On mobilization, on 2 August 1914, the Corps was restructured. The 25th Cavalry Brigade was withdrawn to form part of the 3rd Cavalry Division and the 21st Cavalry Brigade was broken up and its regiments assigned to the divisions as reconnaissance units. The 168th Infantry Regiment was assigned to the 25th Reserve Division in XVIII Reserve Corps. Divisions received engineer companies and other support units from the Corps headquarters. In summary, XVIII Corps mobilised with 24 infantry battalions, 8 machine gun companies (48 machine guns), 8 cavalry squadrons, 24 field artillery batteries (144 guns), 4 heavy artillery batteries (16 guns), 3 pioneer companies and an aviation detachment.

PIONEER BATTALIONS

• In peacetime, there were thirty-five pioneer battalions in the German Army. These battalions were autonomous units that, for purposes of administration and tradition, had many of the rights and functions as regiments of other arms (such as the infantry, cavalry, field artillery and foot artillery). In that respect, pioneer battalions were very much like Jäger battalions.) At mobilization, each peacetime pioneer battalions fielded six field companies, as well as a number of specialized pioneer units. The field companies, in turn, were grouped by threes into two 'field pioneer battalions', each of which was assigned to an army corps, a reserve army corps, a fortress or a fortress pioneer regiment (Festungpionier Regiment).In the twelve months or so following mobilization, the German Army formed a number of individual field companies for service with the new divisions being formed. Once this reform had taken place, the typical German army corps had four or five field companies - three from the original field battalion and one or two from the recently formed division that served as the third division of the army corps. Like the original field companies, each of these new field companies were affiliated with a peacetime pioneer battalion, the depot of which provided it with drafts of trained men. Early in 1917, the German Army formed most of its field companies into small battalions of two field companies apiece, each of which was designed to provide for the needs of a single infantry division.

Edited 4 June , 2019 by zuluwar2006

[Steve1871]

Damn Deitrios, that is nice, usually 98/02's I see for sale are dark and or pitted, that one looks impressive, thanks for the pic

[Steve1871]

I roam the country in a Truck/ Lorry, so can not drive around with a bunch of Bayonet's, much less , old rifles, but if or when get the extra time I would like to make a standard PHOTO SET/GUIDE to go by.Can always add extra pics to any piece, such as to compare...Sawback to plain showing the two blades together, or a muzzle ring difference,I did old post showing 3 different muzzle rings on the S60/71.

 

Zuluwar2006 could show comparisons of God only knows how many different variations of things, The S69 Werder conversions, he can do a whole chapter on alone.

 

For me, a standard layout might be.  (If scab./frog)

1. Whole piece, left. And right 

2.close up of handle/grips/ muzzle ring , both sides

3 ricasso. 2x pics, each side

spine markings

4. Scabbard, both sides and throat markings

5. Frog

6. Any other markings, comparisons with other Bayonet's  and with other members who may want to add to it, could show Bayonet's with or mounted on their rifles/ carbine's .

I would say about 15 pic's per bayonet (scab/frog) would be great

Just a few sample's

[Steve1871]

I almost forgot, The All Important Unit, Regimental markings, they bring the bayonet to life by their histories,add character . We collectors LOVE the units!

 

With Zuluwar2006 outstanding collection and Trajan's studies on the subject, the two of them  would be a great starting point.

Instead of just Ersatz ( huge field itself). I would suggest the Standard issue Bayonet's ( for basis to compare to) Then show variations of those Bayonet's And add the Ersatz and foreign converted pieces

[trajan]

On 04/06/2019 at 06:53, Steve1871 said:

... Zuluwar2006 could show comparisons of God only knows how many different variations of things, The S69 Werder conversions, he can do a whole chapter on alone. ... I would say about 15 pic's per bayonet (scab/frog) would be great

Just a few sample's

 

On 04/06/2019 at 07:16, Steve1871 said:

... Instead of just Ersatz ( huge field itself). I would suggest the Standard issue Bayonet's ( for basis to compare to) Then show variations of those Bayonet's And add the Ersatz and foreign converted pieces

 

What a great set of '71 types you have there Steve! Yes, a new version in effect of the Carter volumes would be great, but very time consuming... It would also be necessary to agree on a standard background for each bayonet... 

 

But the idea fits with what I am trying to do, to get out standard 'biographies', as it were, of the main German types using the German sources plus my unit listings - which need updating (haven't added since 2017 when there were over 4000). Carter had these German sources done for him by Fritz Ehle, but Carter didn't pass on all the information that was there.

 

Julian

[trajan]

On 03/06/2019 at 23:26, zuluwar2006 said:

This is my 4th and last 98/02.... 

 

Very nice! One type I do not have an example of...

[Steve1871]

My pics are just show how we can compair variations, 

Julian, I can send you some pic's from the " Brass Battalion" to use for your research, or use in any way you like. Just be a long time before I can be back, do lot of HD pic's in a standard layout you and Demitrios figure out

[Steve1871]

Hey Zuluwar2006

You have 4. Of those 97/02's?!

Most Fean collector's probabily do not have one. I think you showed one with a scabbard as well. Great collection you have. 

 

As as the new saying goes,

"If it's old and Rare, Demitrios Has one😜👍

[Steve1871]

Typo there, German, not Fean , damn " spell check" on my phone

[zuluwar2006]

1 hour ago, Steve1871 said:

Hey Zuluwar2006

You have 4. Of those 97/02's?!

Most Fean collector's probabily do not have one. I think you showed one with a scabbard as well. Great collection you have. 

 

As as the new saying goes,

"If it's old and Rare, Demitrios Has one😜👍

Thank you Steve

Much obliged from your posts, 

All the best and to your collection as well, which is excellent... 

Regards

D.