rolt968 Posted 5 April , 2018 Share Posted 5 April , 2018 2/Lt Thomas Paisley, 10 Scottish Rifles was killed on 25 September 1915. In reply to an enquiry, in November 1915 the War Office sent a letter telling his widow that they now knew that her husband had been buried at a particular map reference, which they gave in the letter. Unfortunately his grave was subsequently lost and he is commemorated on the Loos Memorial. There is no indication how they told her that. It must have been very distressing. I haven't seen the grid reference sent to a family before was this common? The reference is 36 c G 28 a 5 5, which if I have got it right is about a mile or so north west of Loos. 10 SR got as far as Hill 70 on 25 September, but were unable to collect their dead until two or three days later. Most of their casualties that day appear on the Loos Memorial. I have checked the one or two whose graves were relocated, none were relocated from that reference. Would burial that far west suggest that Thomas Paisley was killed in the early part of the advance or might his body have been brought back from further east? RM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ss002d6252 Posted 5 April , 2018 Share Posted 5 April , 2018 If you haven't already tried it, I find this useful - http://www.tmapper.com/ I suppose it's hard to say, his body might have been brought back to a central location Craig Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rolt968 Posted 5 April , 2018 Author Share Posted 5 April , 2018 32 minutes ago, ss002d6252 said: If you haven't already tried it, I find this useful - http://www.tmapper.com/ I suppose it's hard to say, his body might have been brought back to a central location Craig Thanks Craig That is very useful. It reminded me that In had (deliberately) interpreted the 5s as 50s but even that doesn't make much difference to the location. It was a nice theory about the burial place indicating where he had been killed but in the cold light of day it doesn't hold water without other evidence. Although he was officially killed in action he might have been brought back to a dressing station or as you say his body might have been brought back. The war diary gives a very detailed description of the fighting and the battalion's movements, but between 25 September and the end of the month it gives neither numbers of casualties nor the names of officer casualties. RM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clk Posted 5 April , 2018 Share Posted 5 April , 2018 (edited) Hi RM, This is in the ADMS 15 Division diary at the start of October 1915. Regards Chris Edited 5 April , 2018 by clk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perth Digger Posted 5 April , 2018 Share Posted 5 April , 2018 (edited) RM In answer to your query about whether it was common to give relatives grid references, the answer is yes, at least if an officer was involved. I've seen numerous examples in Service Records. It at least gave the relatives confirmation of death. Mike PS: Craig: that's a very useful website. Thanks. Edited 5 April , 2018 by Perth Digger Addition Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ss002d6252 Posted 5 April , 2018 Share Posted 5 April , 2018 Well away from the Aid Posts where he was buried. I wonder if there was a temporary cemetery there. Craig Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rolt968 Posted 5 April , 2018 Author Share Posted 5 April , 2018 5 hours ago, Perth Digger said: RM In answer to your query about whether it was common to give relatives grid references, the answer is yes, at least if an officer was involved. I've seen numerous examples in Service Records. It at least gave the relatives confirmation of death. Thank you, Mike that's very useful. RM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rolt968 Posted 5 April , 2018 Author Share Posted 5 April , 2018 Thank you, Chris and Craig The maps are very useful. They make it much easier than the ordinary trench maps to follow the details given in the war diary. (Small congratulation to self - that was where I thought the burial place was.) I wonder if it was a temporary cemetery? I have just realised that although there were no men of 10 SR reburied from there, there may be men from the other battalions in 15 Division. I will have another go at CWGC when I get time. RM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
battle of loos Posted 5 April , 2018 Share Posted 5 April , 2018 good evening, the next week (monday) I go to take a picture about the position showing by Craig on the later map I leave in Loos and I know this position since my 6 years (I have 43 years old). the old farmer talk to me this position in early 80's. this little cemetery are destroy by the german shell I don't know if some soldiers stay at is position. regardds michel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rolt968 Posted 6 April , 2018 Author Share Posted 6 April , 2018 Thank you very much, Michel. That is valuable information. RM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TEW Posted 6 April , 2018 Share Posted 6 April , 2018 RM, There are concentrations into Dud Corner Cemetery from pretty nearly bang on your map ref. CWGC and CWGC. The latter has a SR buried G.28.a.3.6. I think you may have to give some leeway with the grid ref. I doubt 2 people 6-7 years apart would be able to give an accurate and identical ref. TEW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johntanner Posted 6 April , 2018 Share Posted 6 April , 2018 TEW Going off topic but looking at the two RFA officers (Brooks and Heath) on your first document and correlating with all the other 97th Bde casualties from Sept and Oct, suggests the unknown RF A gunner is WC Slater surname forename initials age_text honours date_of_death date_of_death2 rank regiment unitshipsquadron country servicenumberexport cemeterymemorial gravereference additionalinformation SLATER WALTER CHARLES W C 28/09/1915 Bombardier Royal Field Artillery 97th Bde. France '42760' LOOS MEMORIAL Panel 3. BROOKS R St. G 26/09/1915 Second Lieutenant Royal Field Artillery 97th Bde. France DUD CORNER CEMETERY, LOOS VI. F. 2. HEATH EDMUND GRIFFITH E G 28 25/09/1915 Captain Royal Field Artillery 97th Bde. France DUD CORNER CEMETERY, LOOS VI. F. 1. Son of Christopher and Francis Heath, of Jersey, Channel Islands; husband of Irene Margaret Heath, 28, Lansdowne Place, Cheltenham, Glos. MAUD CLARENCE C 18 28/09/1915 Gunner Royal Field Artillery "D" Bty. 97th Bde. France '63835' VERMELLES BRITISH CEMETERY I. H. 21. Son of Edwin and Edith Emily Maud, of 7, Craggwell Terrace, Horsforth, Leeds. SMITH FRANCIS F 19 27/10/1915 Gunner Royal Field Artillery "C" Bty. 97th Bde. United Kingdom '84087' SLEIGHTS (OR ESKDALESIDE, ST. JOHN) CHURCHYARD In South-West part. Son of Thomas W. and Dinah Smith, of Bolton Cottages, Eskdaleside, Sleights. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
battle of loos Posted 6 April , 2018 Share Posted 6 April , 2018 good evening, if you want some grave picture to the Dud Corner, it's possible for me to take the picture. give me the name. I'm so happy to help you in your research. regards michel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thetrenchrat22 Posted 6 April , 2018 Share Posted 6 April , 2018 Hi, have a look through the threads under Recovering the Fallen until you find one entailed CEFSG CWGC Cemetery Exchange List you will find a list in there of the cemetery locations with map reference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Howard Posted 6 April , 2018 Share Posted 6 April , 2018 This is from a map in the Body Density series, it is maked AAM on the reverse, thought to be Lt. Col. A.A. Messer. He was associated with exhumations. It shows 16 (assumed to be bodies) in square G 28a although oddly not in the customary blue pencil. The handwritten detail on Body Density maps is not dated, however, the basemap of this one is dated simply 1916 with roads revised January 1916. It may be useful. Howard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TEW Posted 7 April , 2018 Share Posted 7 April , 2018 There is a useful map in 46 Brigade HQ diary for Sept 1915 showing G.28.a. 46 Brigade RAPs were located in Trench 21 and trenches 14, 14a and 15 further west in G.21.d. From there they were evacuated via Quality Street which is just shown in above map bottom left corner near the +'s. From there to Fosse 7 and then onto Tram to ADS in Philosophe. Quality Street is also the pre-engagement assembly position for 10/SR. He could have been injured or killed early on by shell or MG fire. He may have been a moribund case which were not to be evacuated. TEW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rolt968 Posted 7 April , 2018 Author Share Posted 7 April , 2018 10 hours ago, TEW said: There is a useful map in 46 Brigade HQ diary for Sept 1915 showing G.28.a. 46 Brigade RAPs were located in Trench 21 and trenches 14, 14a and 15 further west in G.21.d. From there they were evacuated via Quality Street which is just shown in above map bottom left corner near the +'s. From there to Fosse 7 and then onto Tram to ADS in Philosophe. Quality Street is also the pre-engagement assembly position for 10/SR. He could have been injured or killed early on by shell or MG fire. He may have been a moribund case which were not to be evacuated. TEW Thank you very much, that's wonderful. RM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
battle of loos Posted 19 April , 2018 Share Posted 19 April , 2018 good evening, this is the first shooting today with the big sun : square : 29 - 30 - 35 1 : tosh cem. 2 : crucifix cem. Loos 3 : isolated grave 4 : fort glatz cem. 5 : german Loos cem. for the another position, it's for the next week. regards michel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rolt968 Posted 19 April , 2018 Author Share Posted 19 April , 2018 Thank you Michel. RM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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