Clear Bell Posted 3 April , 2018 Share Posted 3 April , 2018 Can anyone advise about researching tank corps operations in 1917. I think I am looking for what became the 18th Battalion of the Tank Corps in 1918, but before that may have neem known as 18th battalion, Machine Gun Company (Heavy Section). I am not sure how to indentify relevant war diaries, but I think this section was fighting somewhere near Pascchendaele Ridge towards the end of August 1917. Would be grateful for any ideas about how to locate what was happening at this time Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gareth Davies Posted 3 April , 2018 Share Posted 3 April , 2018 (edited) The 18th Bn were never in action. Are you perhaps confusing 18 Company and 18th Bn? 18 Coy were in action on 22 Aug 17. https://sites.google.com/site/landships/home/narratives/1917/3rdypresnarratives/3rdypresnarratives-byunit/18company22august1917 Edited 3 April , 2018 by Gareth Davies Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clear Bell Posted 3 April , 2018 Author Share Posted 3 April , 2018 Yes, that's entirely possible. Any way I can pinpoint the company instead? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gareth Davies Posted 3 April , 2018 Share Posted 3 April , 2018 Did you look at the link I posted? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clear Bell Posted 3 April , 2018 Author Share Posted 3 April , 2018 Hi Yes- thanks very much for this. Great bit of work. I am hoping the R.W. Peters in "Faun" is the A.W. Peters (Albert Wallace Peters) I am researching. Is this possible? I think he had been a machine gunner in Royal Horse Guards before his commission and working with tanks. I've been looking at his files at the NA and it shows his left leg was severely injured at Gravenstafel on 22 August - but obviously most of his file is about allowances due to him, what work he could do, and so on, so I wasn't sure what action he had been taking part in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gareth Davies Posted 3 April , 2018 Share Posted 3 April , 2018 Yes, the R W is a transcription error in the War Diary transcript held at the Tank Museum. R W is indeed A W Peters. Yes, he was wounded on 22 Aug 17. The War Diary describes the action thus (this is also in the Bn history): Received direct hit while lined up at Starting Point before ZERO, putting one turret out of action on right side, and wounding one man. Proceeded at ZERO for about 200 yards under heavy fire, and then became ditched. The officer and all the crew became casualties while putting on unditching gear. An officer and a fresh crew were sent up as soon as the OC Company was informed of the situation, but the tank could not be unditched, owing to heavy fire. The tank was got back on the night of the 23.8.17, and brought to the Company Rallying Point. There is a history of the 6th Bn History which is available from N&M (and it's slightly reduced in price) here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clear Bell Posted 5 April , 2018 Author Share Posted 5 April , 2018 That's really useful to know. And thanks for the link to the history of the battalion. The tank was in service later that year wasn't it, unlike Albert who was permanently disabled as a result of his injury/treatment (like so many others). Your first link suggests how brave tank crew must have been in their lumbering vehicles. Must have been very frustrating to operate them at this early stage of their development. BTW, Albert survive the war but only for a few days, dying of influenza on 20 November 1918. Many thanks again for your help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gareth Davies Posted 5 April , 2018 Share Posted 5 April , 2018 (edited) Yes, the tank 2721 was in action at Cambrai in November 1917 with crew F43, commanded by Lt J L Lees. He was killed on 23 Aug 1918. Edited 5 April , 2018 by Gareth Davies Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gareth Davies Posted 5 April , 2018 Share Posted 5 April , 2018 (edited) He is (as I am sure you know) named on the Royal College of Art memorial. http://remembrance.rca.ac.uk/?page_id=195 Edited 5 April , 2018 by Gareth Davies Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clear Bell Posted 7 April , 2018 Author Share Posted 7 April , 2018 On 05/04/2018 at 19:19, Gareth Davies said: He is (as I am sure you know) named on the Royal College of Art memorial. http://remembrance.rca.ac.uk/?page_id=195 I've just noticed the post you made about Albert's pstel (?) portrait of Sir Frank Short at the NPG - but for some reason can't see the posting on the GWF.... Yes, this was made when he was a student and Short was Professor of Engraving. Of course, what would be great would be to find a confirmed portrait of Albert too. Still keeping an eye out for this. I think someone else on the forum was asking where Albert is buried - his grave can be found in his home town, West Bromwich, at St. John the Evangelist's cemetery, Perry Barr. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gareth Davies Posted 7 April , 2018 Share Posted 7 April , 2018 This one: https://www.npg.org.uk/collections/search/portrait/mw05780/Frank-Short It was e who asked where he was buried but I then found him so deleted that post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clear Bell Posted 7 April , 2018 Author Share Posted 7 April , 2018 Okey dokey. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gareth Davies Posted 7 April , 2018 Share Posted 7 April , 2018 What is interesting is that he is listed on the CWGC site as being MGC rather than Tank Corps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clear Bell Posted 7 April , 2018 Author Share Posted 7 April , 2018 Could that be because in early days the Tank Corps were referred to as Machine Gun Corps (Heavy section) or something similar to this, and I think his service records mention the MGC rather than the later set up of specific Tank Corps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gareth Davies Posted 7 April , 2018 Share Posted 7 April , 2018 Yes. But I would have expected him to have later become Tank Corps - he was injured after the formation of the Tank Corps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clear Bell Posted 7 April , 2018 Author Share Posted 7 April , 2018 Yes, I agree and his MIC clearly states "Tank C. 2/Lieut" as well as noting that he was "Comm. M.G.C. 23-11-16". What's more documents in his service file at the NA that I photographed - mainly to do with his injury, treatment and then payments due on his death - clearly state "18th Bn. Tank Corps". I don't know how the CWGC collated their information originally (relatives?) but looks as if no-one has asked for it to be corrected. Never done this myself. Do you want to contact them? If not, I am happy to do this at some point soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gareth Davies Posted 7 April , 2018 Share Posted 7 April , 2018 I am in regular contact with the CWGC regarding Tank Corps men but as I haven't researched him (and thus don't have the reference material) it would probably be better coming from you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clear Bell Posted 7 April , 2018 Author Share Posted 7 April , 2018 That's fine. Will do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gareth Davies Posted 7 April , 2018 Share Posted 7 April , 2018 Of course it is possible that he never transferred to the Tank Corps. But most of those men who were commissioned into the MGC HB did transfer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clear Bell Posted 7 April , 2018 Author Share Posted 7 April , 2018 Should I looking for some kind of note clearly indicating this? Or some list of letters/numbers or something on his MIC? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ss002d6252 Posted 7 April , 2018 Share Posted 7 April , 2018 (edited) The soldiers effects records state that A W Peters was 2nd Lt, 18 Tank Corps. Craig Edited 7 April , 2018 by ss002d6252 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gareth Davies Posted 7 April , 2018 Share Posted 7 April , 2018 Thanks Craig. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clear Bell Posted 7 April , 2018 Author Share Posted 7 April , 2018 And I've just ploughed through my photos of his service file documents again. His casualty forms from the summer of 1917 say "Machine Gun Corps" so perhaps that's where the confusion set in for CWGC. But Medical Board documents mention "Tank Corps" as does a document instructing payments to his father (soldier effects) via solicitors, and Albert also signs off a couple of letters to the Secretary of the War Office (22 March & 16 May 1918) with "Tank Corps" too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gareth Davies Posted 7 April , 2018 Share Posted 7 April , 2018 I think that should do it. The CWGC won't change the headstone in a hurry though (that's not a criticism of them I hasten to add). They will wait until it needs replacement if for example it is weather damaged or some such. But it would be good to get him on to their database as Tank Corps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clear Bell Posted 8 April , 2018 Author Share Posted 8 April , 2018 Just seen this. Will ask the CWGC what they need to know to amend their records, and, of course, completely undertand about headstone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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