Battlefields touring

[Michelle Young]

This is a genuine question which I hope will get some healthy debate but will keep civil. It’s probably aimed at regular battlefield tourists rather than the people who want to see where a relative died and don’t visit again. 

Today I posted photos on Facebook of my most recent battlefields visit. Someone said I go to out of the way places. This person visits at least three times a year with his partner but always stays in one place- on the Somme. They never go anywhere else. 

Yes  for the last 5 years I have stayed at the same place in Loos in September for the anniversary but use it as a base apart from on the actual anniversary. 

I am just wondering why people seem to either stay on the1916  Somme or at Ypres year in year out and don’t venture further afield? 

I like discovering new areas, doing the map work, finding new Gites to stay in and expanding my knowledge; there is so much of the Western Front to explore. 

[Gareth Davies]

Great photos.  

 

What's intersting is that the chap (a mutual friend of ours) who said that you go to out of the way places is someone who I thought was a regular visitor and battlefield guide who ranged further and wider than you have suggested.  

 

I think there are four primary reasons why people stick to the Somme and the Salient (plus Vimy as they head up/down the A1):

 

1.  They are close to Calais. Yes, I know Arras and Loos are closer than the Somme but you know what I mean.  

2.  There is lots written on those areas.

3.  There is quite a bit to see.  And it needs a number of visits to see it all, especially if you want to understand (as in Bloom) rather than just know.

4.  Familiarity (which breeds....)

 

But I fully agree with you.  I always try and go off the beaten track, even when the focus of the tour is Somme and/or Ypres.  For example I was at Favreuil on 25 Mar 18 where Walter Tull was killed 100 years ago to that day.  There was no one else there (apart from the 40 kids I took with me).  And when flying solo there is little better than exploring somewhere new.  

 

 

[keithfazzani]

I must admit I tend to stay in the same place the Somme, as a base. I do venture further afield but also find that I discover something new locally every time I visit. I suspect that would be the case however long I stayed there. I also find, as I grow older, that I would rather have in depth knowledge of one area. 

[sassenach]

I suppose it's a bit like gardening. Some folk like to grow a bit of everything, others prefer to focus on one type of plant, trying to increase their knowledge of it and hopefully discover new varieties.

[keithmroberts]

I normally visit taking my caravan, and there are fewer options regarding campsites. I do mostly return to the same Somme campsite at Authuille, and occasionally to the one at Ypres, although I will drive quite a distance to visit a new area. I must also admit that in the last few years I have not really been researching the campaigns all that much, but the social history and the careers of men from a small parish just up the road and more recently the numerous clerics from the parent church who served as chaplains. Hence i seem to spend  much more time in archives and on line finding and researching the individuals, rather than looking at the campaigns. 

I do try to do some reading about a couple of actions/events before my annual trip, but find it increasingly hard to pull back from my research. To add to that, so many Portsmouth men were in the navy, so I have tried to catch up with the war at sea. There is so much more to it than just Jutland  the Dogger Bank and the Coronel/Falklands.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[genegwf]

Hello Michelle,

 

I have visited Ypers twice and the Somme twenty plus times. I usually travel alone and I stay at Oceanvillas with Avril when I am at the Somme. 

The reasons are fairly simple. I will share with you my entire vocabulary of French, "qui","bonjour", "merci" and "Leffe". My understanding of written French is

even more limited, I don't understand anything.

 

I fly into Brussels and drive to the Somme. I have driven many routes to the Somme depending on which city I was in when I got lost.

 I have driven many tours around a roundabout, to the amazement of French drivers, as I try to clarify directions. Not knowing the rules of the road can be an educational 

experience as I drive through a large city or a small village. 

I have ventured out to Arras and Vimy Ridge but I usually limit my explorations to the local area. I have always found something or someplace I have never seen before.

 

I have been fortunate to meet members of the forum during my trips and they have been more than accommodating as I tagged along with them on their field walks or 

visits to historical sights.

I have found the area around the Somme more open than other places and generally easier to get lost while on a solo field walk.

 

I know I stay at the same place because of the comfort level for travelling in the area and back to the Brussels airport. I am now somewhat familiar with the roads.

I have never had a bad experience with any of the locals I have waved to or who have spoken to me, including the farmer at Serre. I had no idea what he was saying.

 

 

For this American it is all about the ease of getting around and still having a wonderful time.

 

Gene

 

 

[ServiceRumDiluted]

Interesting point, personally I love visiting the French areas, Verdun draws me back time after time, but I often find time to visit the Chemin des Dames, Champagne and Argonne. The only areas I have yet to visit are the Marne and the Vosges. I like the sense of scale, and the broader, non Anglo centric, perspective you develop.

[chaz]

Stay in the same place as that's where our second house is , but, it doesn't stop us travelling around, still plenty to see and when the grandkids come over we are equi distances from le touquet and Albert also a fairly straight run from Calais. 

Some people are creatures of habit, some just like the reassurance of the same place. People I used to work with always went to the same UK holiday resort at the same time every year. Then I also knew people who had never ventured outside their own local towns 5 mile radius. Choice, habit, everyone to their own. I heard tales of the Med back in the 80's, tainted my mind and I've no interest in going there, been to Florida 15-20 times and fed up , last time spent 1/2 a day in Disney, out so a fortnight. Just couldn't be hassled with the flight now yet used to be a home owner and tax payer there. You will find us just outside of Frevent on the edge of the Somme / Pas de Calais border

Edited 2 April , 2018 by chaz

[KIRKY]

Beenm going to the Somme for 20 plus years every year sometimes two or three times, something keeps drawing me back and I love the place. Always something new to discover and new walks to do. We do trips out to other areas and always plan something for every year but Somme is always our base.

Tony

 

[ejwalshe]

Sorry, not one of those people, Michelle.

 

I too was told the same..."Someone said I go to out of the way places".

 

My fifth year on the Western Front, and it will be typical:  visiting over 200 CWGC and Volksbund cemeteries (with only a half-dozen receiving a second or third visit).

 

Estimating 5,600 kilometers, 500 flags and 1,500 poppies for the trip (luggage swollen and overflowing with poppies and flags).

 

Holland, Germany, France, Belgium and the Grand Duchy in the plan.

 

Next year, I hope to make it across the channel and to return by ferry from Southampton to Le Havre as my grandfather had done in 1917.

 

There are enough destinations on the Western Front to keep me occupied for at least another five years.

[Chris_Baker]

20 hours ago, Michelle Young said:

I am just wondering why people seem to either stay on the Somme or at Ypres year in year out and don’t venture further afield? 

 

My guess: Comfort zone. English being spoken. Perhaps an irrational fear of the unknown.

[Gareth Davies]

Another factor is that for some (many?) people battlefield touring = cemeteries.  And there are lots and lots of those in the Salient and the Somme. 

[suesalter1]

For me, I prefer the Ypres Salient area for a number of reasons :

 

1. Great-uncle buried there (I drop by and visit every trip)

2. English widely spoken, although I can get by in French - sometimes!

3. I feel comfortable there  for some reason.

4. I haven't persuaded my friend we need to visit the Somme region yet and go on a battlefield tour. She's only just caught the bug of touring. Maybe we'll get there next year.

 

Sue.

[squirrel]

Usually stay in Ypres and Cambrai for Western Front visits although I have stayed at other places. A lot depends on the standard of accommodation you prefer and your budget as well as what and where you want to visit.

Walking the battlefields is a must as well as visiting the cemeteries. I have visited over 120 cemeteries and memorials where the casualties of one particular regiment are buried or commemorated, as well as numerous others in the company of other travellers. I have two relatives buried in France and another near Ypres that are visited regularly.

Never tire of of going there and of sharing stories with others.

Edited 3 April , 2018 by squirrel

[ejwalshe]

Break 'er in gently, Sue.  Would be ideal to have someone to share these experiences with, but finding another with the same level of passion is quite challenging.

[sassenach]

For those of us who do not drive and are not keen on coach tours, Ypres and the salient have the advantage of a good local bus network and easy walking around the old battlefields.

[julia jeffries]

I must admit that we always go to Ypres probably because

 

• our relatives are mainly buried on the Salient and those that aren't are buried in northern France and hence en route
• it is only an hour and a bit for Calais so ideal when time is restricted to a few days
• more than often we have friends / family with us who don't have the 'bug' but are interested. We can easily show them round the cemeteries / museums and arrange for them to go on tours to get the overview and provide knowledge where we can't. it is near enough to Bruges etc as well.
• the Arianne is our 'guilty pleasure'.  I think we will have stayed there 15 times when we go in 2 weeks.  Our normal holidays are self-catering so this makes a lovely change. The staff know us and I feel go the extra mile (no connection to the place I promise!) and they were especially kind to some older relatives who came with us last year

Perhaps not the best reasons when there is so much to see and learn but for an 'amateur' like me it keeps my interest and my enthusiasm for helping friends and family .

 

j

 

 

 

[suesalter1]

I love the Arianne, but my friend prefers self-catering and using her own car. I think last year, we drove around in circles trying to find the Harry Patch memorial. We still missed it!

 

Sue.

[julia jeffries]

Hi Sue 

 

We have only found it by accident as we always take the wrong road from where my uncle is buried to Tyne Cot!

[Michelle Young]

Thank you for the replies. I have to say I have completely lost my interest in the 1916 Somme and apart from visiting Ernie at Tyne Cot once a year, I don't go to the  Salient. Ypres is too busy, too commercial and artificial for my taste. I understand the language thing but the last few gites we've stayed, the owners have had excellent English. I have found the Somme getting very commercial over the last few years. 

I'm also not interested in staying in hotels, I like the freedom a gite offers, and we have made some good friends of owners of gites and Chambre d'Hotes. Part of the enjoyment of staying in a self catering is  buying a cooking local food, visiting markets to chose what I want to cook. 

I am certainly happy finding my way round new areas, the 1918 Somme area that we stayed in recently was lovely, good walking, and pretty scenery. Also a lot to discover. We're off to the Vosges for our summer motorcycle trip, which I'm really looking forward to 

[Malcolm Linham]

 I think there is a certain amount of being comfortable in my surroundings , I alternate on a yearly basis between the Araine in Ypres and Avril's on the Somme both very different from each other but I feel quite comfortable in both. 

 My knowledge of French is very limited and because of a previous leg injury some of the circular walks by Paul Reed and other's  are no longer an option.

However with sat nav and car I am quite prepared to travel some distance from my  bases , last year I drove down to Compiegn and this year I am thinking of going to La Basse and the Le Touret memorial to remember Walter Henry Linham.

 

 Malcolm

[mebu]

Personally I enjoy both ways of visiting the Western Front area: the oft-visited "tourist" locations, and also exploring new ground.

For the visited areas, I have visited often the areas which have some family or other association, and also those where I picked up a real interest.....Redan Ridge, Pozieres, Neuve Chapelle  and  Potijze. Also, in the evening, meeting and chatting/drinking with other visitors one meets at the usual Duvel hostelries. And, like TT's report above, there is excitement to be had from finding a badge in the mud.

However I found I get more enjoyment from exploring where few feet tread. In some locations it is possible to see where it is likely that no battlefield tourist has visited, and apart from the farmer or local kids playing, no-one has been. For example, entering a British concrete emplacement, from 1918, camouflage hidden in a barn, and finding the remains of an RE or 9th Division MGC lunch there, several bottles of Watkins Digestive Relish, one of which sits on my desk. And finding the name of a 5th Division machine gunner scratched into the wall of a post in the depths of Nieppe forest, sad that later found he is buried only a mile away. Finding a German bunker behind the Hindenburg Line, deep in a wood, thought it unseen by British eyes since 1918, only to find from a local source later that some RAF airmen were believed to have been hidden there in the 1940s. So, on both sides of the battle zone, there are many areas still to be explored. In a  number of the woods it is easy to pick out the trench lines, which can be compared to trench maps and reports of actions in war diaries.

I did stop visiting cemeteries some time ago - not out of disrespect, I just enjoy traipsing through woods and fields and meeting locals such as farmers who can often tell of something hidden away.

 

Peter

 

Edited 3 April , 2018 by mebu
sp

[Fattyowls]

I think I've got a lot more to see around the Salient, because I've never walked it. Likewise on the Somme; I've only walked the battlefield once and I was amazed at how much more you pick up. So I can see myself spending time in both areas,  while not neglecting my personal interests on the Lys and south of Arras. In fact I want to walk as much if the whole front line as I can while I still can. I haven't been south to Champagne and Verdun for nearly 18 years and it's time I went back there. So for me there's still a lot of unfinished business.

 

Pete.

[simond9x]

Although I'm 66, I'm relatively new (7 years?)  to visiting the battlefields and usually spend 5-7 days a year walking. I base myself in Ypres and Albert for convenience but always try and do different walks on each visit...... although I do always allow myself one day to revisit places that are 'special' to me. I always research an individual or an event for each walk to try and 'personalise' it. This year I walked 1915 battlefields for the first time - Neuve Chapelle and Festubert. I had planned a long walk around the Loos area and a trip to the Argonne but a bad knee limited my walking to about 4 hours a day rather than my previous 8 hours a day. With my contemporary trench maps and photographs, and through wind and rain, I almost always walk alone....... well, apart from the ghosts.

[Kimberley John Lindsay]

Dear All,

On 1 September 2006 my German/Australian son and I contacted Yves, a French aficionado of 53 Bn AIF, and (after checking in at a self-service hotel) met up with him, near Peronne. There, he showed us the spot where my grandfather (Capt W. F. Lindsay, "D" Coy Cdr 54 Bn) and the battalion on 1 September 1918 charged up the hill, through belts of wire covered with MGs - a VC being won by Pte Currey - and successfully pushed the advance forward.

The cost of victory on that day was 4 Officers and ca. 50 Other Ranks KiA. Amongst the wounded, was Capt Lindsay, who was subsequently awarded an MC.

On the top of the hill there stands an Australian Imperial Force Digger figure, which replaced a more combatant sculpture of an Australian killing an Eagle (which was destroyed by the Germans in 1940).

Three of the four Australian Officers lie in the nearby cemetery, as well as a VC from the similarly-attacking 54 Bn AIF.

Afterwards, son Philip and I drove around various memorials, no longer in need of our kind Frenchman (who had written a book about one of the 53 Bn Officers). One felt a bit odd, parking the silver-metallic Audi with Ludwigsburg number plates, as well as speaking German between ourselves. 

We also visited Jean (now deceased), a former Mayor, introduced by Yves of course. He kindly gave us trench artifacts, such as a trench "spike", used to secure lengths of barbed-wire... 

Kindest regards,

Kim.

Edited 3 April , 2018 by Kimberley John Lindsay