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Remembered Today:

Schoolteacher H.A.Smith - King's Liverpool ?


davidbohl
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This chap was connected to the Bank Staff in the solving of Lt Idwal Ben Humphrey

 

He played for a few years before the war http://home.btconnect.com/seftonrufc/s56.jpg

 

It's been difficult to pin him down regarding family etc. but I think he may be the Harold Albert Smith who died in 1981 on the Wirral.

 

There is a T.Capt H.A.Smith in the Royal Defence Corps 1917, seems to be a too higher rank for him ?

 

Thanks

Dave

 

 

SmithHA_1917.jpg

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5 minutes ago, davidbohl said:

This chap was connected to the Bank Staff in the solving of Lt Idwal Ben Humphrey http://1914-1918.invisionzone.com/forums/topic/254647-jbhumphrey-christian-names-from-ancestry-record/

 

He played for a few years before the war http://home.btconnect.com/seftonrufc/s56.jpg

 

It's been difficult to pin him down regarding family etc. but I think he may be the Harold Albert Smith who died in 1981 on the Wirral.

 

There is a T.Capt H.A.Smith in the Royal Defence Corps 1917, seems to be a too higher rank for him ?

 

Thanks

Dave

 

SmithHA_bank2.png

SmithHA_1917.jpg

Why do you think the rank is too high for him ? A well educated clerk wouldn't have a problem with getting to Lt, a temp Captaincy in the RDC wouldn't be out of the realms of possibility.

Craig

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I'll be more than pleased if it is him, can we find his forenames and expand the paper trail for him ?

 

Dave

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I'm less inclined to go towards the man who died in 1981. Looking at the death records I suspect he's the Harold born 1901 which would make him too young if he is Harold Albert.

image.png.4e7c09864bab147bc559fb8fcd573a3f.png

If anyone can check the 1939 register there are two possibilities which jump out for Harold A Smith - I'd take a punt on the 1887 man to try and see of Harold A can be ruled out.
image.png.19212f859173bae86c5da86e5ffb7cb1.png

Craig

Edited by ss002d6252
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1938 Kelly's directory

SmithHA_1938.jpg.c1326b9247d24972c8befda8dd4f4d6c.jpg

 

and the 1939 Register puts him in BirminghamSmithHA_1939.jpg.5029dcb4d4e82ea696e70b668bd22528.jpg

 

Great site for Martins Bank Birmingham http://www.martinsbank.co.uk/11-76-00 Birmingham City Office.htm

 

also return to the Wirral http://www.martinsbank.co.uk/11-83-40 Hoylake.htm

 

Dave

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The Medal Roll on Ancestry, still won't divulge his forenames.

 

Dave

41629_611411_5785-00044.jpg

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He appears to be Harold Aubrey Smith, gazetted as a temp. Capt. into 19th (3rd City) Bn. The King's (Liverpool Regiment) 3 November 1914 https://www.thegazette.co.uk/London/issue/28960/supplement/8856 Commission date amended to 3 September 1914 https://www.thegazette.co.uk/London/issue/28973/page/9267

 

Edit to add:- There was a Harold Aubrey Smith, born about 1888, Chagford Devon in the 1911 census, schoolmaster, lodging at 3, Chatsworth Terrace, Torquay.

A medal index card exists for Capt. Harold Aubrey Smith, King's Liverpool Regt. The reverse shows two correspondence addresses (1) Cawsand  or Cowsand View, Chagford, Devon (this is struck through), and (2) 135, Chatham Street, Liverpool.

There is a death registration for Harold Aubrey Smith, born 2 October 1887, died Liverpool 1969. There appears to be no probate record.

 

Edited by HarryBrook
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Ancestry has him in the Lodge at Pemboke Dock in 1917 and bingo Schoolmaster

 

Name: Harold Aubrey Smith
Age in 1911: 23
Estimated Birth Year: abt 1888
Relation to Head: Boarder
Gender: Male
Birth Place: Chagford, Devon
Civil Parish: Tormoham
Search Photos: Search for 'Tormoham' in the UK City, Town and Village Photos collection
County/Island: Devon
Country: England
Street address: 3 Chatsworth Terrace, Wellesley Road, Torquay
Marital Status: Single
Occupation: school Master

 

Screenshot 2018-04-02 at 14.27.25.png

Edited by davidbohl
1911 census
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Well pleased with that result, thanks GWF

 

Dave

 

"Amongst the military appointments contained in the London Gazette. dated November 1914. is that of Harold Aubrey Smith be captain of the 3rd City Battalion, King's Liverpool Regt. A native of Chagford, the second son of Mr. G. Smith (District Councillor) —he commenced his military training very early in life bugler-boy in the J Detachment of G Company, 5th (Haytor) Volunteer"

 

Published:Friday 06 November 1914
Newspaper:Western Times

 

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Born 2 Oct 1887 In 1939 register living with his wife at 17 Talbotville Road , Liverpool C.B., Lancashire, . He is disability  pensioned Capt in Kings Liverpool, and has had his left arm . He is an Insurance Inspectoramputated

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Just to finish it off

Popped his clogs in the Dec qtr of 1969

Name: Harold Aubrey Smith
Death Age: 82
Birth Date: 2 Oct 1887
Registration Date: Dec 1969
Registration district: Liverpool
Inferred County: Lancashire
Volume: 10d
Page: 887

 

Ray

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The amputation of his arm would certainly finish his rugby career,

was it during the war, because of the war or in his civilian life ?

 

Dave

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  • davidbohl changed the title to Schoolteacher H.A.Smith - King's Liverpool ?

Dave

 

This is Harold Aubrey Smith pre-war.

 

image.png.b50cea5f8ce858949b0137acb6d84a50.png

 

As you state he was indeed an early member of the 5th Devons. Educated at St. Lukes College he joined the 5th VBDR as a Bugler moving to the 5th Devon on forming in 1908. He transferred to the 4th Devons in 1909 ultimately becoming a Sgt. He was the son of George Smith the headmaster of Chagford School and founding member of the Chagford Coy in 1896. George was to serve as a Col.Sgt with the Coy until retiring in 1910. Harold's brother Hubert Leslie Smith was killed in action near St. Quentin on 24th March 1918.

 

Let me know if you want to know more.

 

Regards

Dave

 

Edited by ddycher
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What a majestic photo Dave, d'you think it's our man in the team photo 1913-14 ?

SmithHA_1913-14.jpg.6384c15580b5e529685bf5fc098cf58e.jpg

 

Just had a successful visit to the library, some really interesting snippets, he even joined Capt Mainwairing's lot in ww2 as a Major.

 

Dave

 

SmithHA_19191214.jpg

SmithHA_19220526.jpg

SmithHA_19341019.jpg

SmithHA_19370917.jpg

SmithHA_19410509.jpg

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6 hours ago, davidbohl said:

d'you think it's our man in the team photo 1913-14 ?

Looks like him to me David.

Edited by HolymoleyRE
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I think so David. His cleft chin carries on both the pre-war and the bank photos.

 

Regards

Dave

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Great result Dave, I'll do a page now on the club website for him, if I use the photie do I need to acknowledge any copyright ?

I noticed your interest in the Indian troops, I've been after a photo of one of our players Percy Charles Kinns who went on to become a Lt-Col in the Indian Army, would you have any leads ?

http://home.btconnect.com/seftonrufc/PercyKinns.htm

 

Dave

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Not that I am aware of David. Picked it up on the Web years ago. 

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The Devereux database at the Liverpool Museum of Liverpool Life have him "Listed as Dead".

I think we are all agreed he was just wounded, I'll try and get that changed.

 

Dave

 

Edited by davidbohl
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