Joe Toy Posted 26 March , 2018 Share Posted 26 March , 2018 Ladies & Gentlemen Help ! I'm attempting without a great deal of success, to find some information on where and when 90977 Pte Robert Roland SOAR served with the Machine Gun Corps in the Great War which he survived. It seems that little of the history, movements etc of the MGC exists and a lot of what there was destroyed in the WW2 blitz. Any pointers or suggestions I could follow would be appreciated. Many thanks in advance Malcolm (Joe Toy) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin kenf48 Posted 26 March , 2018 Admin Share Posted 26 March , 2018 I can tell you roughly when but unfortunately not where. He was in a cohort who were previously in the 7th Reserve Battalion Notts and Derby (Sherwood Foresters) (90974)or the 4th Reserve Battalion Leicestershire Regiment (90982) (these men had some local affiliation to the regiment having completed their basic training in an infantry unit). They transferred and were renumbered to the MGC on the 4th April 1917 or the Leicesters shown as 3rd April 1917. They shipped out to the BEF on various dates from May to August 1917. On arrival in France they went to the Base Depot at Camiers and from there were posted to an active service unit in the field. There the trail goes cold as they were posted where they were needed and where the records survive each mania the number series was sent to a different Company at a different time, even though they joined the MGC on the same day. If taken prisoner the ICRC records sometimes give the unit but it appears he escaped that fate, interestingly 'Soar' seems a Leicestershire name as there are more than a couple in the ICRC records. Ken Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Toy Posted 26 March , 2018 Author Share Posted 26 March , 2018 6 hours ago, kenf48 said: I can tell you roughly when but unfortunately not where. He was in a cohort who were previously in the 7th Reserve Battalion Notts and Derby (Sherwood Foresters) (90974)or the 4th Reserve Battalion Leicestershire Regiment (90982) (these men had some local affiliation to the regiment having completed their basic training in an infantry unit). They transferred and were renumbered to the MGC on the 4th April 1917 or the Leicesters shown as 3rd April 1917. They shipped out to the BEF on various dates from May to August 1917. On arrival in France they went to the Base Depot at Camiers and from there were posted to an active service unit in the field. There the trail goes cold as they were posted where they were needed and where the records survive each mania the number series was sent to a different Company at a different time, even though they joined the MGC on the same day. If taken prisoner the ICRC records sometimes give the unit but it appears he escaped that fate, interestingly 'Soar' seems a Leicestershire name as there are more than a couple in the ICRC records. Ken Many thanks for that valuable information Ken - much appreciated. Robert Roland SOAR was born in Basford in April 1898, a district of Nottingham so my guess is that he originally joined the Sherwood Foresters as you suggest although the 7th Reserve Battalion Notts and Derby are not listed on the Sherwood Foresters website. They mention some of the Reserve battalions but not the 7th. http://www.the-sherwood-foresters.co.uk/timeline.html To be honest, I'm not actually sure of the difference between a Service Battallion and a Reserve Battalion. Assuming he didn't join up under-age being born in April 1898, I would suspect he may have enlisted in 1916 on becoming 18 years and probably the local regiment. I will try contacting the Sherwood Foresters people to see if they have any information on the 7th. Interestingly, I am visiting the Somme battlefields (yet again!) with Robert's grandson next month who rather than an Army career became a Royal Naval Admiral which is somewhat in contrast. If Robert did serve on the Somme at any time prior to transferring to the MGC it would be brilliant to perhaps follow in some of his footsteps to a degree. Again, many thanks for your kind help Ken 6 hours ago, kenf48 said: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin kenf48 Posted 27 March , 2018 Admin Share Posted 27 March , 2018 8 hours ago, Joe Toy said: Robert Roland SOAR was born in Basford in April 1898, a district of Nottingham so my guess is that he originally joined the Sherwood Foresters as you suggest although the 7th Reserve Battalion Notts and Derby are not listed on the Sherwood Foresters website. They mention some of the Reserve battalions but not the 7th. http://www.the-sherwood-foresters.co.uk/timeline.html To be honest, I'm not actually sure of the difference between a Service Battallion and a Reserve Battalion. Assuming he didn't join up under-age being born in April 1898, I would suspect he may have enlisted in 1916 on becoming 18 years and probably the local regiment. I will try contacting the Sherwood Foresters people to see if they have any information on the 7th. Interestingly, I am visiting the Somme battlefields (yet again!) with Robert's grandson next month who rather than an Army career became a Royal Naval Admiral which is somewhat in contrast. If Robert did serve on the Somme at any time prior to transferring to the MGC it would be brilliant to perhaps follow in some of his footsteps to a degree. As always the LLT provides the answer http://www.longlongtrail.co.uk/army/regiments-and-corps/the-british-infantry-regiments-of-1914-1918/sherwood-foresters-nottinghamshire-derbyshire-regiment/ the basis of which is Brigadier E.A. James 'British Regiments 1914-1918' as amended by Chris Baker. "3/7th and 3/8th Battalions Formed at home bases on 1 March and 26 February 1915 respectively. Moved to Grantham in October 1915. 8 April 1916 : became 7th and 8th Reserve Bns. 1 September 1916 : 7th Reserve Bn absorbed 8th at Saltfleet. In Louth for much of 1918." Grantham was also the training depot for the MGC which may or may not be a coincidence. Two MGC officers were despatched to Home or Reserve units to seek out suitable recruits for the Corps. Your assumption is probably correct he was conscripted aged 18 (most likely 18 1/2) however he could not be posted on active service overseas until aged 19. Many men in the cohort mentioned above {though not all) were aged 18 and after completing initial training of around 12 weeks instead of kicking their heels on coastal defence for example underwent further training as machine gunners. The Corps was seen by some as an 'elite' unit. As evidenced by the Medal Rolls he did not serve overseas with the Sherwood Foresters or any other unit and in all probability was posted to the BEF in May 1917. There are fragments of MGC Orders on FMP and a member of the forum has indexed these when found. There is also the MGC Old Comrades Association which carries out research for a fee http://www.machineguncorps.co.uk/research.html however I doubt anyone could do much research in the time available before your trip. Briefly, a 'Service' Battalion was formed for service in the war and was part of Kitchener's Army; a Reserve Battalion was a training or reserve unit based at home which fed men into the active service Battalions (by this stage of the war either Regular New Army or TF Battalions). Ken Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Toy Posted 27 March , 2018 Author Share Posted 27 March , 2018 Ken, thanks yet again - not sure what I would do without guys like you ! That is why you are a Lieut-General and I am a mere Sarjeant-Major ! Just a couple of questions.... As evidenced by the Medal Rolls he did not serve overseas with the Sherwood Foresters or any other unit and in all probability was posted to the BEF in May 1917. There are fragments of MGC Orders on FMP and a member of the forum has indexed these when found. Would the 'evidence' be that the Sherwood Foresters or any other unit are not mentioned on his Medal Roll Index Card and only the MGC? Although probably obvious to most but, what is FMP ? Why probably posted overseas to the BEF in May 1917? Thanks also for the tip of MGC Comrades site - I will suggest that to him. Thanks again and regards Malcolm (Joe Toy) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin kenf48 Posted 27 March , 2018 Admin Share Posted 27 March , 2018 On 27/03/2018 at 20:20, Joe Toy said: Just a couple of questions.... Would the 'evidence' be that the Sherwood Foresters or any other unit are not mentioned on his Medal Roll Index Card and only the MGC? Although probably obvious to most but, what is FMP ? Why probably posted overseas to the BEF in May 1917? Yes,, at the risk of stating the obvious the purpose of the Rolls and the associated index cards was the administration of the issue of medals not for future research 100 years later! That said we can make certain deductions from the Rolls and the process. We know the 'war medals' were named to the first unit he was serving with when he entered a theatre of war. We also know the issue was administered by the unit he was serving in when his service ended. We know he did not have the 14-15 Star so no service in an active theatre of war before 31/12//1915. As only the MGC is shown on his entry in the MGC Rolls that means he did not enter a theatre of war with the Sherwood Foresters. (Anomalies sometimes occur when a man is serving in say, the Sherwood Foresters when posted overseas but is posted elsewhere from the IBD however we know he transferred to the MGC in the UK for further training and was serving with them when posted to France. FMP = Find My Past This is the thread if you haven't found it. You said he was born April 1898 therefore he was in play from his nineteenth birthday or May 1917 that was the earliest date as previously mentioned some in the 4/4/17 were posted to the BEF in May, say six weeks minimum MG training, others went in June and one in August. Therefore anytime from mid May to August based on surviving service records of men in that number series, 90975 for example was posted to the BEF on the 3 June 1917 joining 122 Company on the 10th June/Pte 90976 Weavers was posted to the BEF 9 June 1917 joining 59 Company on the 19th June. In March 1918 the MGC was reorganised and formed into Battalions attached to the same number Division, 59 Company therefore became 19 Battalion. Pte Weavers was 18 years and 10 months on enlistment in February 1917, he died of wounds on 27 September 1918. He was formerly 7645 Notts and Derby. https://www.cwgc.org/find-war-dead/casualty/167349/weavers,-/ Now there is no guarantee Pte Soar was with him on active service, but they certainly knew each other. Although the cemetery is behind the lines there is a connection if you're in the neighbourhood! Ken Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Toy Posted 28 March , 2018 Author Share Posted 28 March , 2018 Again many thanks Ken - I am indebted to you once again. Malcolm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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