Kimberley John Lindsay Posted 24 March , 2018 Share Posted 24 March , 2018 (edited) Dear All, The Belgian 'Decoration Civique' (1st Class) to Cecil Leonard Harland, was a minor award indeed. However, having said that, any Great War decoration was hard to get. Furthermore, as far as I can ascertain, only circa ten thousand of the British Red Cross & St. John service were employed in the campaign in France and Belgium. Perhaps some Great War aficionado has knowledge of C. L. Harland...? Any response in the affirmative would be greatly appreciated. Kindest regards, Kim. Edited 9 April , 2018 by Kimberley John Lindsay Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Medaler Posted 25 March , 2018 Share Posted 25 March , 2018 Hi Kim, Well, I am once again outside my comfort zone with this one, and can't help with Harland. The award however looks like its silver in the picture. I think I'm right in saying that this makes it 2nd Class. Very nice with the crossed swords too. No doubt somebody will be along shortly to put me straight! Regards, Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kimberley John Lindsay Posted 25 March , 2018 Author Share Posted 25 March , 2018 Dear Mike, Thanks for your welcome feedback. This Great War medal collecting is addictive - and certainly the modest group (as groups go) to Cecil Leonard Harland, is unusual. At any rate, I have secured the medals and will pay for them tomorrow. (One often hesitates, and then ZACK! - gone.) The Belgian Decoration Civique was awarded as a cross (in three grades), and as a cross-like medal (as in this instance), in gold, silver and bronze: 1st , 2nd and 3rd classes. The dealer claimed it was gold, 1st class, but this remains to be seen. The Belgians had a large number of quite different awards (I enclose a group to a VAD nurse, for example). Yes, let's hope a member knowledgeable in matters BRC & StJJ, will take up the challange.. Kindest regards, Kim. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
von Smallhausen Posted 25 March , 2018 Share Posted 25 March , 2018 Hey Kim, The 1914-1915 clasp is a very scarce item. Believe me. Jef Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Medaler Posted 26 March , 2018 Share Posted 26 March , 2018 Hi Kim, Sorry, I have nothing to ad, but I just had to come back to say how much I like that VAD group. Those King Albert Medals are not exactly common. I spent a long time looking for a single example for my collection. Far too nice a group for me not to swing back in and show my appreciation of it ! Regards, Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kimberley John Lindsay Posted 26 March , 2018 Author Share Posted 26 March , 2018 Dear Mike, I agree. Unfortunately not in mine, but in the Collection of a good and long-standing friend of mine. The recipient's two Officer brothers were KiA in the same action. She later nursed a wounded Officer who had the MC and Bar; they were married but had no children. She died relatively young and he outlived her by decades... Kindest regards, Kim. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kimberley John Lindsay Posted 6 April , 2018 Author Share Posted 6 April , 2018 Dear All, Here is the Medal Index Card for Cecil Leonard Harland, plus his Medal roll entry, and detail of the medals and BWM naming, etc. Kindest regards, Kim. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BarbaraG Posted 6 April , 2018 Share Posted 6 April , 2018 BRCS site is being updated at present, due to be available again shortly (?). Found a transcription of details from the BRC Register of Overseas Volunteers for Cecil Leonard HARLAND. Rank: Orderly Certificate No. 14657 Department: Personnel Passport No. 171701 Destination: France Don't have access to Ancestry at the moment but there appear to be a couple of Family Trees which may have more information or clues. Barbara Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kimberley John Lindsay Posted 6 April , 2018 Author Share Posted 6 April , 2018 Dear Barbara, Many thanks for this C. L. Harland, Orderly to France, information: much appreciated! Apparently there is a VAD card for Cecil Leonard Harland; as you say, the British Red Cross site is down, momentarily - this also kindly confirmed by Norman Gooding, who is most knowledgeable about such things... I have also been told that Cecil was born in 1901, so he must have lied about his age. Be that as it may, he must have done something outstanding, to have been decorated with a Belgian medal. Kindest regards, Kim. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ForeignGong Posted 6 April , 2018 Share Posted 6 April , 2018 (edited) On 26/03/2018 at 05:43, von Smallhausen said: Hey Kim, The 1914-1915 clasp is a very scarce item. Believe me. Jef Hi Jeff I have a 15 Star trio to an Australian awarded a Croix Civique 2nd Cl in Sept 1918 that has a 1914-1915 clasp (came from the family) and was always trying to figure why the clasp didn't have 1914-1918. This was awarded for saving civilians from a bombed house while on a army course. I've always thought these awards were similar to the British George Medal and Cross. Any info would be appreciated. Thanks Peter Edited 6 April , 2018 by ForeignGong Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
von Smallhausen Posted 7 April , 2018 Share Posted 7 April , 2018 Hello Peter, Please find a link of a very good site on Belgian Medals. I was not able to find english text, only dutch and French about the civil decoration. I hope this French text is helpful. http://www.medalcorner.fr/ with kind regards, Jef Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
von Smallhausen Posted 7 April , 2018 Share Posted 7 April , 2018 Hello again, Was looking for more info and found this... also for an Australian recepient: http://www.medalcorner.fr/ . In the same site as above, in "the hall of honours". It looks as the medal was gained in the same circumstances. Jef Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ForeignGong Posted 7 April , 2018 Share Posted 7 April , 2018 Hi Jef Thanks, Lt Beaton is the recipient I was alluding to. Hendrik helped me immensely with the research, as Beaton is the only Australian awarded a Croix Civique for WW1. It is not gazetted but is in his service papers. He found the Belgian equivalent to the LG but only mentions Beaton by name, no other info. I eventually found the reason for the award in the WD for the 4th Aust Field Artillery Brigade (A.F.B.). under the heading “Brigade Routine Orders By Lieut Colonel C A Callachan, D.S.O. Commanding 4th Aust F.A.Brigade, Appendix 93 164, dated Sept 17th 1918” there it was. “His Majesty the King of the Belgium’s has awarded the Belgium Croix Civique to Lieut H J Beaton, 12th Battery AFA, in recognition of the part played by this officer in rescuing on the 20th March 1918, several persons of Belgium nationality from a house in Calais which had been demolished by an enemy bomb.” (Auth: 2nd.Aust Div. 74 / 492 of 30.8.1918)” But even Hendrik could not explain why Beaton had a "1914-1915" clasp in stead of aa "1914-1918". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
von Smallhausen Posted 8 April , 2018 Share Posted 8 April , 2018 I'm afraid I cannot explain it either but I wouldn't be surprised if the authorities had to finish the stock of 1914/1915 first. I already saw strange things..... kind regards, Jef Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kimberley John Lindsay Posted 8 April , 2018 Author Share Posted 8 April , 2018 (edited) Dear Jef, Now that's an idea! They first wanted to make sure that the very last 1914-1915 clasp for the Decoration Civique was used up, before breaking open the packages of freshly-minted 1914-1918 clasps. Never mind that 1917 had come around (1916, even) - clear out the old stock! Sounds plausible, in fact... Kindest regards, Kim. Edited 8 April , 2018 by Kimberley John Lindsay Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
von Smallhausen Posted 9 April , 2018 Share Posted 9 April , 2018 I didn't say this is true, but I would be surprised. .... Jef Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kimberley John Lindsay Posted 28 June , 2018 Author Share Posted 28 June , 2018 (edited) Dear All, Most unfortunately, the British Red Cross archive has no Card for Harland. Talk about 'back to square one!' Apparently on another archive, he is shown as an Orderly - which is something which adds to my knowledge, at least. I mean, all I need is a photo of him! Kindest regards, Kim. Edited 2 July , 2018 by Kimberley John Lindsay Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry_Reeves Posted 29 June , 2018 Share Posted 29 June , 2018 (edited) Kim The only Cecil Leonard Harland I have been able to find was born in 1901 and died 1964. Given that he only had a pair, it is possible, if he joined late in the war, it could be him. The probate records show him as a retired electrical engineer of 50 Parkwood Rd, Boscombe, Bournemouth. He died on 5 June 1964. TR Edited 29 June , 2018 by Terry_Reeves Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kimberley John Lindsay Posted 29 June , 2018 Author Share Posted 29 June , 2018 Dear Terry, Thanks for that: I will get my UK researcher (I live near Stuttgart) to follow up on that lead - many thanks! Kindest regards, Kim. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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