MAHENGE 1917.

[SteveE]

31 minutes ago, charlie962 said:

It is @charlie2 that you need!

Thanks for the pointer, at least one of us knows who to ask 😀.

[charlie2]

1 hour ago, SteveE said:

I'm not sure where repatriation lists (of German POWs) would be held in ICRC, or even if they are?  I wonder if @charlie962 could possibly advise?

Steve

Steve

There are no repatriation lists as we know them for German soldiers, sometimes there is something recorded on the index card. Some are recorded as being a returned PoW in the casualty lists http://des.genealogy.net/eingabe-verlustlisten/search Are you looking for someone in particular?

Charlie2

[SteveE]

2 hours ago, charlie2 said:

There are no repatriation lists as we know them for German soldiers, sometimes there is something recorded on the index card. Some are recorded as being a returned PoW in the casualty lists http://des.genealogy.net/eingabe-verlustlisten/search Are you looking for someone in particular?

Charlie

Thanks for your message, we’re looking at Martin Curdes, 26 Feld-Kompagnie and any possible repatriation after being taken prisoner at Sali in October 1917 and subsequent internments in Dar-es-Salaam and Cairo, Egypt.  We’ve found the original details just wasn’t sure if there were German repatriation lists similar to those for the British in their weekly casualty lists?

Steve

[Holger Kotthaus]

Quote

1.)   History, battle-list and path of the 26. Field Company within the GEA-campaign from 1915 to 1917.

2.)   Detail update Private M. Curdes and biographical list of Lieutenant J. Zingel, Commander 26. F.K.

3.)   Diary records from Pastor M. Meiller, Sali Mission Station and handover around Mahenge 10/1917.

4.)   Further results about the research of the Origin of M. Curd

Rolyboy & SteveE,

I have made the list above, how I want to proceed, since there is still some information about M. Curdes.

In my opinion, it is always better to go in order. I was only just a little late because of Christmas. I want to explain the background more in detail. But maybe the full story of the 26th Field Company isn't strictly necessary. Anyway, I will continue for the time being, then other connections will also become more apparent.

Regards Holger

 

[rolyboy11]

Holger,

Thank you and apologies, that's my fault for re-raising questions out of order.  You are right it is good to keep areas of research in order but always difficult with a thread I guess. 

I think the full story of 26th Field company is VERY relevant, and am totally amazed at the detail you have put together so far.  Looking forward to reading the rest of your account. 

Steve, Charlie2,

Many thanks for your thoughts.  Rather looking like the repatriation lead may be a dead end.  Just thought it possible that there may have been a record of where POW's went after release. In this case our man most likely returned to Africa, or went back to Germany? 

Rolyboy.

 

[Holger Kotthaus]

Rolyboy, I realized it’s pointless to list here more details or the whole background. Here the summarized, short cut version.

 

On January 29, 1917, Wahle gave the Detachment Wintgens and Kraut the order to march off. The reason is the lack of food in the western district of Mahenge. Wintgens and his Detachment arrived in Gumbiro on February 5, 1917.

“Captain Wintgens, who was pursuing his own plans, sent the report to the Western Commander-in-Chief on February 3, 1917 that he intended to march on Milow and later on Tandala. At Gumbiro, Major Kraut, the senior officer, pointed out that the joint order dictated the south direction and asked Captain Wintgens to join him. Major Kraut was unable to assert himself, however, as a subordination relationship was not expressly ordered. So the 'Detachment Wintgens' finally left the association of uniformly managed Schutztruppe in order to wage war on their own. The two Detachments, Kraut and Wintgens separated on February 6, 1917, 18 km west of Gumbiro. "

From this date, at the beginning of February 1917, the 'Detachment Wintgens' moved in a north-easterly direction, while the 'Detachment Kraut' marched to the south-west. The remaining units of the western troops under General Wahle are at this point in the east, in the Mahenge district.

This means that since February 1917 the `Detachment Wintgens´ has had no connection whatsoever with the rest of the Schutztruppe; - neither to the `western troops ', nor to the` eastern troops'. Since then there has been no contact with one another; - no more information or messages were exchanged; - Nobody knew where the other unit was; - which of course meant that there was no longer any exchange of individual or multiple people. As part of the 'Detachment Wintgens', the above-mentioned, of course, also applied to the 26th Field Company, which surrendered on September 3, 1917 in the Nguru Mountains. As a result;  It was impossible for Martin Curdes to switch between the `Detachment Wintgens´ and the western troops in Mahenge between February and October 1917.

This map shows the situation on October 1st, 1917 in the Mahenge area

: https://sammlungen.ub.uni-frankfurt.de/kolonialbibliothek/content/pageview/7788319

 

Martin Curdes was 25 years old when the war started. Even if he did not volunteered for military service in 1914, he would normally have been called up for military service as a reservist in the course of 1915. He was also not drafted into the Militia (Landsturm) in 1916. It is unusual that Curdes was not listed military until 1917; and then only in the Rear line (Etappenleitung), so no combat unit. Personal reasons could have played a role here. Or maybe he wasn't physically able to do so; - Speculation, to be sure, but obvious.

The source states that he was first in the Rear line (Etappenleitung) in 1917, then with the 26. F.K. and from October 1917 belonged to the Intendant's office (Feldintendantur) of the Western troops, and also in the same month, on October 14, 1917, was captured in Sali.

In Pastor Magnes' handwritten notes, Curdes appears as the clerk of the Intendant's office without any particular field of responsibility, as well as in the list of prisoners. But he still had enough time to label a jack knife.

That´s all.

Regards Holger

[charlie2]

2 hours ago, rolyboy11 said:

Rather looking like the repatriation lead may be a dead end.

I had a look through the ICRC files etc and found nothing which you didn‘t already have. Unless another source turns up I‘m afraid it looks like it is a dead end.

Charlie

[rolyboy11]

Charlie2

Thanks for that, a shame, as knowing where he went to after release would have been useful and interesting.

Holger

Amazing research again!! You raise so many interesting questions....

1. Your first section on 26FK finishes on 19/09/16 with the 3 columns leaving Tabora by separate routes.  Second section starts 29/01/17. Have you any info. on those missing months? This could be relevant as he may have served earlier in 1917 before the detachment moved north?? 

2. The most intriguing questions are raised in your summary of Curdes himself.

He had completed his pre war military training, becoming an NCO,  so a competent soldier.  In 1914 NCO's must have been in great demand but seemingly he was not called up. He only seems to appear in 1917.  You say personal reasons could have played a part so looking at some possibles -

(a) Just to be sure on this one - Could he have served earlier, say 1915/16, but not show on any of the lists you have??

(b) When he arrived in DOA he is listed as single. He died in March 1923, by then married with a child. When he married is unknown but nothing here is likely to have delayed him being called up as a reservist.   https://www.geni.com/people/Martin-Curdes

BUT - His cause of death is given as - 'T.B. contracted in the war.' He could have contracted this unknowingly, even before he arrived in Africa, maybe he originally went for his health? Outdoor healthy life etc??

Obviously he could also have contracted this while in Africa, or while a POW. We will never know. However, as TB could debilitate for many years,  I think it reasonable to speculate that his illness could have begun to show itself early in the war?  His late service in the rear lines would fit with this. When at Sali, he was seemingly not bedridden but working as a clerk, which again could make sense??

Lots of guesswork here!!

Rolyboy.

 

[Holger Kotthaus]

On 24/12/2021 at 00:16, rolyboy11 said:

1. Your first section on 26FK finishes on 19/09/16 with the 3 columns leaving Tabora by separate routes.  Second section starts 29/01/17. Have you any info. on those missing months? This could be relevant as he may have served earlier in 1917 before the detachment moved north?? 

2. The most intriguing questions are raised in your summary of Curdes himself.

He had completed his pre war military training, becoming an NCO,  so a competent soldier.  In 1914 NCO's must have been in great demand but seemingly he was not called up. He only seems to appear in 1917.  You say personal reasons could have played a part so looking at some possibles -

(a) Just to be sure on this one - Could he have served earlier, say 1915/16, but not show on any of the lists you have??

(b) When he arrived in DOA he is listed as single. He died in March 1923, by then married with a child. When he married is unknown but nothing here is likely to have delayed him being called up as a reservist.   https://www.geni.com/people/Martin-Curdes

BUT - His cause of death is given as - 'T.B. contracted in the war.' He could have contracted this unknowingly, even before he arrived in Africa, maybe he originally went for his health? Outdoor healthy life etc??

Obviously he could also have contracted this while in Africa, or while a POW. We will never know. However, as TB could debilitate for many years,  I think it reasonable to speculate that his illness could have begun to show itself early in the war?  His late service in the rear lines would fit with this. When at Sali, he was seemingly not bedridden but working as a clerk, which again could make sense??

 

Rolyboy;–  I´ll send you PM; - Merry Christmas; - Regards Holger