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Remembered Today:

More bad news from Europe on De-act Bolt action rifles


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49 minutes ago, pioneecorps said:

Not seen the Co2 SMLE yet, but I'm thinking their using stock photos off the internet to show, reason, the one I have shown different to the one in 593jones link.

 

Regards

Gerwyn

 

Well, that's a shame, I might have been tempted if it had been a recreation of a Mk I***.  Mink you, I did think it rather an unusual version to produce.

Edited by 593jones
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1 hour ago, 593jones said:

 

Well, that's a shame, I might have been tempted if it had been a recreation of a Mk I***.  Mink you, I did think it rather an unusual version to produce.

What I'm pointing out, they look like the real SMLE, so should they come under replica which Denix make.:unsure:, and we know, unless your a member of a group that's allowed to own one, you cant buy one.

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33 minutes ago, pioneecorps said:

What I'm pointing out, they look like the real SMLE, so should they come under replica which Denix make.:unsure:, and we know, unless your a member of a group that's allowed to own one, you cant buy one.

 

A good point, and one I had forgotten.  Curiously, though, the ad on Pellpax's website makes no mention of this.  It does give the impression customers can just order the rifle for home delivery.  https://www.pellpax.co.uk/airguns/air-rifles/co2-powered-air-rifles/lee-enfield-smle-co2-air-rifle-4-5mm-bb/20445

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My understanding is that weapons like the CO2 Lee Enfield (when it becomes available) are classified as air weapons and thus are not covered by the VCR (Violent Crime Reduction) bill, so although they are realistic imitation firearms you do not need to be in an airsoft club/re-enactment group/theatrical company to purchase them legally.  In essence, they can be purchased in the same way as any other air pistol or air rifle.

 

Conversely, lower-powered airsoft versions of the same are classified as Realistic Imitation Firearms rather than air weapons and do fall under the provisions of the VCR.  An airsoft Luger would be illegal to purchase unless you met one of the exemptions under the VCR, but a visually identical CO2 powered air pistol version of the same would not.

 

Returning to deactivated weapons, I've always wanted at some point to add a deactivated MG08/15 (or, one day a MG08) to my collection but I really can't bring myself to do so given the degree of mutilation that these weapons will now need to be subjected to....the expense is also a factor, but I'd find the price tag easier to deal with it the weapon was deactivated in line with the old specifications.

 

What are the thoughts of other members on here -will the EU regulations adversely affect the trade in deactivated weapons as well as the value of existing collections?

 

All the best

 

Paul.

 

 

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Hi All

I have been looking at a Lee Enfield .303 SMLE for some time, but this is sad to see they want to destroy the mechanism?

Can I clarify that if you own one now or purchase one before the June date then you only need to re-deactivate it if you sell it?

Or

Do they demand all deactivated guns be recalled and re-deactivated regardless from that date?

Idea obviously is to purchase one ASAP before that date so it will still have some functionality?

With Thanks

Andy

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Hi Andy

 

Any deactivated weapon legally purchased now will have a current EU deactivation certificate, and any weapon purchased legally if/when the new regulations come into force will have to be deactivated to the specifications that are covered by the new certificate.

 

If you already own a deactivated weapon that has been deactivated according to any of the various old specifications then you are not breaking the law -there is absolutely no requirement for you to have further work done on it provided it is a) legally deactivated under the specifications of the time by a proof house and b ) you retain ownership of it.*

 

If however you wish to transfer ownership of the weapon -either by sale or gift- then it then becomes technically "defectively deactivated " and the law requires it to be deactivated to the latest specifications before ownership is transferred, otherwise the vendor is liable to prosecution.

 

All the best

 

Paul.

 

*Given that there's no register of who holds deactivated weapons, retrospective further deactivation would be impossible to enforce/police anyway.

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9 minutes ago, P.B. said:

Hi Andy

 

Any deactivated weapon legally purchased now will have a current EU deactivation certificate, and any weapon purchased legally if/when the new regulations come into force will have to be deactivated to the specifications that are covered by the new certificate.

 

If you already own a deactivated weapon that has been deactivated according to any of the various old specifications then you are not breaking the law -there is absolutely no requirement for you to have further work done on it provided it is a) legally deactivated under the specifications of the time by a proof house and b ) you retain ownership of it.*

 

If however you wish to transfer ownership of the weapon -either by sale or gift- then it then becomes technically "defectively deactivated " and the law requires it to be deactivated to the latest specifications before ownership is transferred, otherwise the vendor is liable to prosecution.

 

All the best

 

Paul.

 

*Given that there's no register of who holds deactivated weapons, retrospective further deactivation would be impossible to enforce/police anyway.

Thanks for the clarification!

Looks like I need to start finding one asap?

I wonder how it will effect prices?

Will they go up between now and June?

Owners and sellers etc will have to get them re-deactivated so i assume they will want to recoup the costs so the price goes up?

Or will the value collapse because of the work done making them less collectable?

Interesting times ahead?

 

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2 hours ago, P.B. said:

My understanding is that weapons like the CO2 Lee Enfield (when it becomes available) are classified as air weapons and thus are not covered by the VCR (Violent Crime Reduction) bill, so although they are realistic imitation firearms you do not need to be in an airsoft club/re-enactment group/theatrical company to purchase them legally.  In essence, they can be purchased in the same way as any other air pistol or air rifle.

 

Conversely, lower-powered airsoft versions of the same are classified as Realistic Imitation Firearms rather than air weapons and do fall under the provisions of the VCR.  An airsoft Luger would be illegal to purchase unless you met one of the exemptions under the VCR, but a visually identical CO2 powered air pistol version of the same would not.

 

 

The above would seem to indicate that the law is an ass, however, it is more likely that it is the lawmakers who are the asses.  Who thinks these regulations up?  You really couldn't make it up!

39 minutes ago, andy2014 said:

 

Owners and sellers etc will have to get them re-deactivated so i assume they will want to recoup the costs so the price goes up?

Or will the value collapse because of the work done making them less collectable?

Interesting times ahead?

 

 

I imagine it will affect prices, as you say, sellers will want to recoup the cost of the extra work.  I doubt whether value will collapse, there will still be people who will want the deactivated items even in their proposed mutilated state.  After all, automatic weapons such as AK47's etc., are still sold despite being effectively welded solid.  As you say, Andy, interesting times ahead. 

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2 hours ago, 593jones said:

 

A good point, and one I had forgotten.  Curiously, though, the ad on Pellpax's website makes no mention of this.  It does give the impression customers can just order the rifle for home delivery.  https://www.pellpax.co.uk/airguns/air-rifles/co2-powered-air-rifles/lee-enfield-smle-co2-air-rifle-4-5mm-bb/20445

Your right 593 jones, they will deliver to your door.

 

Call me thicko, but can anyone explain the reason for allowing the trigger to move, but will not move any other part of the trigger mechanism,  or that you cannot operate the cocking bolt, the police say they cant distinguish between a live one or a deact, will by doing this, then make the police see whether its live or a deact 

 

Regards .

Gerwyn 

Edited by pioneecorps
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To neatly illustrate the excellent points made by the gentleman above, let's play a little game....there are three images attached, one of a deactivated Luger with an early 2000s certificate which is legal to own but would now be illegal to sell in it's current state, the second is a CO2 powered air pistol manufactured to look like a Luger which is legal for anyone of the legal age to buy over the counter like any other air pistol, and the third is the less powerful airsoft version which would be illegal to buy unless you met one of the VCR act exemptions (airsoft club, re-enactment group, and so on).

 

If the intention is to regulate against realistic imitation firearms, then the law has failed.  Perversely, it's still easier to buy a real Luger pistol (albeit in deactivated form) than it is to buy an airsoft version that fires 6mm plastic BBs at low velocities.  It's also easier to buy the higher powered air pistol than it is to buy the airsoft version as well.

 

To Andy I would give this opinion -if you want a deactivated Lee Enfield I would buy one as soon as possible, as I can only see the specifications becoming more, rather than less, obtrusive.  Bear in mind that the UK may also interpret the EU regulations as a minimum standard and actually require even more strident deactivation work in the future.

 

You really, really couldn't make it up.

 

All the best

 

Paul.

lugerleft 1.jpg

co2luger.jpg

airsoftluger.jpg

Edited by P.B.
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1 minute ago, depaor01 said:

All three would cause consternation if waved around in public!

 

Dave

 

Totally agree -and anyone who did so would deserve the full weight of the law.

 

All the best

 

Paul.

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One would be considerably more expensive than the others.

 

Mike.

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Hello Paul

 

I have three bb Co2 pistols which I have bought from a RFD, one of them being the Webley Mk6, you can buy a weathered/ battle looking one. realistic looking yes.

 

 

1.JPG

2.JPG

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Hi Gerwyn

 

I really like these -did yours come with the reprint of the 1920s vintage training pamphlet?

 

All the best

 

Paul.

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4 hours ago, pioneecorps said:

 

Call me thicko, but can anyone explain the reason for allowing the trigger to move, but will not move any other part of the trigger mechanism,  or that you cannot operate the cocking bolt, the police say they cant distinguish between a live one or a deact, will by doing this, then make the police see whether its live or a deact 

 

Regards .

Gerwyn 

 

More regulations mean that the government (any government) is Taking Action, something they have to be seen to be doing.  Whether or not the action taken is appropriate or even useful is secondary, the thing is to be seen to be doing something.  Or am I just being cynical?

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2 minutes ago, 593jones said:

 

More regulations mean that the government (any government) is Taking Action, something they have to be seen to be doing.  Whether or not the action taken is appropriate or even useful is secondary, the thing is to be seen to be doing something.  Or am I just being cynical?

And sadly collectors like us are such a small proportion of the electorate we make easy targets...and the government in power is seen to be doing something in the majorities eyes....a large proportion of whom don't understand or care.

 

Dave.

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Another example of the stupidity of our gun laws... I currently only own one deactivated weapon, and that is my 1906 dated SMLE No1 Mk1***. It is pre EU spec, not that it matters, because I have no intention of selling it. It cannot fire, it cannot even be made to fire, but the law requires that it is marked up with proof-house stamps to show that it was (at the time) legally deactivated. Contrary to what some people  think, you can actually own these guns without the certificate providing they are properly stamped at the proof-house... the law accepts the fact that certificates can be mislaid. My second rifle is a Kropatschek which I picked up at the recent Preston arms fair. It is in full working order and has an excellent bore. I can legally own it (up to now) without the need for a certificate or section 1 licence... providing I only keep it for it's antique status and curiosity value as per the rules of 'Section 58' covering antique and obsolete calibre weapons. If my intention is to fire it, then I need a licence.

 

DSCF0384.JPG

DSCF0432.JPG

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14 hours ago, P.B. said:

Hi Gerwyn

 

I really like these -did yours come with the reprint of the 1920s vintage training pamphlet?

 

All the best

 

Paul.

 

Paul,

 

I also have one of these excellent replicas, in .177 rifled configuration. Weight and feel is exactly as the original.  The facsimile Training pamphlet is dated 1937.  

 

Mike.

Edited by MikeyH
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Can anyone recommend a reputable dealer or website etc to purchase a 1916-1917 .303 SMLE?

or know of any militaria fairs before June?

Am new to purchasing such items and have seen several on some websites like real guns.co, Jaybe militaria and dandbmilitaria etc?

Any tips or advice welcome?

Have learnt interesting details about matching serial no`s etc from my previous post a while back.

Thanks

Andy

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18 minutes ago, andy2014 said:

Can anyone recommend a reputable dealer or website etc to purchase a 1916-1917 .303 SMLE?

or know of any militaria fairs before June?

Am new to purchasing such items and have seen several on some websites like real guns.co, Jaybe militaria and dandbmilitaria etc?

Any tips or advice welcome?

Have learnt interesting details about matching serial no`s etc from my previous post a while back.

Thanks

Andy

 

There are plenty of good dealers around, the Milweb site lists pretty much all of them I think: http://www.milweb.net/classifieds.php?type=16

 

It is much better if you can actually examine weapons before you buy, so depending on where you are in the country an arms fair would be a good place to visit.  Northern Arms Fairs are quite good, I regularly visit the Leeds fair.  http://www.northernarmsfairs.co.uk/

There are plenty of others around the country: https://www.militaria-history.co.uk/events

 

DandB and Worldwide Arms visit the Leeds fair and generally have plenty of stock to examine.  Whichever fair you visit you'll probably be spoilt for choice!

 

Good luck!

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16 hours ago, P.B. said:

Hi Gerwyn

 

I really like these -did yours come with the reprint of the 1920s vintage training pamphlet?

 

All the best

 

Paul.

Hi Paul 

 

Yes it did come with the reprinted 1937 training pamphlet, it operates just like the real one, right down ejecting mechanism operating the same, although because they a full dummy rounds to hold the bb, and are heavier than a shell case, they do not eject like the original one.

 

ADDED, You can even field strip it

 

Regards

Gerwyn

Edited by pioneecorps
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58 minutes ago, pioneecorps said:

Hi Paul 

 

Yes it did come with the reprinted 1937 training pamphlet, it operates just like the real one, right down ejecting mechanism operating the same, although because they a full dummy rounds to hold the bb, and are heavier than a shell case, they do not eject like the original one.

 

ADDED, You can even field strip it

 

Regards

Gerwyn

 

I don't suppose you could use a Prideaux speedloader with it, could you?

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3 hours ago, 593jones said:

 

There are plenty of good dealers around, the Milweb site lists pretty much all of them I think: http://www.milweb.net/classifieds.php?type=16

 

It is much better if you can actually examine weapons before you buy, so depending on where you are in the country an arms fair would be a good place to visit.  Northern Arms Fairs are quite good, I regularly visit the Leeds fair.  http://www.northernarmsfairs.co.uk/

There are plenty of others around the country: https://www.militaria-history.co.uk/events

 

DandB and Worldwide Arms visit the Leeds fair and generally have plenty of stock to examine.  Whichever fair you visit you'll probably be spoilt for choice!

 

Good luck!

Great Thanks

Will look to get to the Leeds one this weekend!

Plenty of research to brush up on before then as I don`t know anyone else who knows their stuff to get advice from.

Be best as you say to handle and inspect everything properly.

Thanks for the links!

Andy

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4 hours ago, 593jones said:

 

I don't suppose you could use a Prideaux speedloader with it, could you?

 

Hi 593jones

 

Yes you can get a speedloader for it,, but I like the feel of loading it manuallyB)

 

Reagards

Gerwyn

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