Avro ? at Imbros

[Alan Bentley]

Just to add a little to the Avro 504 topic.

In the  Sub. Lt. H.A.Buss flying log is an entry for Thasos; "9.12.15. Avro 504. Recconaissance  at Suvla. Engine stopped on way home owing to seized ball race and broken connecting rod. Landed on sea & picked up by Monitor "Earl of Peterborough"

Does anyone have anything further on this, are there any pictures?

[pete-c]

6 hours ago, Alan Bentley said:

Just to add a little to the Avro 504 topic.

In the  Sub. Lt. H.A.Buss flying log is an entry for Thasos; "9.12.15. Avro 504. Recconaissance  at Suvla. Engine stopped on way home owing to seized ball race and broken connecting rod. Landed on sea & picked up by Monitor "Earl of Peterborough"

Does anyone have anything further on this, are there any pictures?

 

Hi Alan,

Buss was flying Avro 504B '1040'.   His observer was Lt CA Bourne RFA.   HMS Peterborough had been using her guns to harass Turkish troops from her position off Suvla Bay.  The land based machines (from Imbros) had been more successful for spotting duties that the previously employed seaplanes - mainly due to the time needed to hoist these types in and out of the water.  

I'll have a check to see if I've got a photo of this machine.

 

EDIT: Found this in Cross & Cockade International 2003 Vol 34 No 1.   This machine was deleted by March 1916 - presumably after being stripped for spares!

 

Edited 29 August , 2018 by pete-c
Phot.

[Rob B]

This is a stunning thread, and my thanks to all of you.

My Grandfather Fl Lt RG Spence DFC was a late addition to the Aegean Theatre - leaving Southampton for Taranto on the 29th April 1918, he was badged RNAS and laterally flew DH 10s with F Squadron Wing 62. He was operational from early July and we have letters recounting bombing missions from Mudros to Constantinople.

The detail and pictures in your posts are outstanding, many thanks again. 

[pete-c]

30 minutes ago, Rob B said:

This is a stunning thread, and my thanks to all of you.

My Grandfather Fl Lt RG Spence DFC was a late addition to the Aegean Theatre - leaving Southampton for Taranto on the 29th April 1918, he was badged RNAS and laterally flew DH 10s with F Squadron Wing 62. He was operational from early July and we have letters recounting bombing missions from Mudros to Constantinople.

The detail and pictures in your posts are outstanding, many thanks again. 

 

Glad you're enjoying the thread Rob.   Presumably his flights from Mudros would have been in machines such as Sopwith Strutters?   You may wish to upload some of the letters on to the Forum as I'm sure they would make fascinating reading.

[Rob B]

32 minutes ago, pete-c said:

 

Glad you're enjoying the thread Rob.   Presumably his flights from Mudros would have been in machines such as Sopwith Strutters?   You may wish to upload some of the letters on to the Forum as I'm sure they would make fascinating reading.

Pete will certainly do that. Here is a picture of him with his Observer a nice RFC and RNAS team!

[pete-c]

Rob,

The machine your grandfather and his observer are standing by could, I think, be a DH9.   Do you know which Flight/Squadron he would have been with at this time.   An 'F' Squadron was formed at Mudros April/May 1918 and was a mobile unit until it took up permanent residence at Mudros from July 7th 1918.  'F' Squadron became 222 Squadron RAF from September 14th 1918.  

 

 

Edited 29 August , 2018 by pete-c

[Rob B]

Thanks Pete,

I have found three letters transcribed by my great Aunt from the front, one is specifically addressed  from D squadron 62 wing Aegean. I rather think he was mobile for a while as he mentioned serving on Stavros and Imbros as well as Mudros.

 

The first letter is dated July 28th 1918 and he had just left Mudros which was an hour and a half flying time away on the main land and behind the lines there is a reference to an officer called Clark and his sergeant an ex Master at Arms at Manston who went down over enemy lines and are taken prisoner.

The second dated 28th August which recounts a photo recce flight finishing with a bombing run on a german seaplane aerodrome

The last one was 25th August and recounts a raid from Mudros to Constantinople and him crash landing on the salt flats with bombs still in the cradles. He specifically mentions another officer called Severley who arrived at the front at a similar time to my grandfather he was from from Bournemouth.  His plane was hit in the petrol tank and he came down in the sea, he managed to swim 2.5 miles to land his gun layer was killed. 

Will try and get the letters uploaded shortly.

[Rob B]

Letter 1 page 1.pdfLetter 1 page 1.pdfLetter 1 page 1.pdfLetter 1 page 1.pdf

[Rob B]

Letter 1 page 2.pdf

Letter 1 page 3.pdf

Letter 1 page 4.pdf

[pete-c]

12 hours ago, Rob B said:

Thanks Pete,

I have found three letters transcribed by my great Aunt from the front, one is specifically addressed  from D squadron 62 wing Aegean. I rather think he was mobile for a while as he mentioned serving on Stavros and Imbros as well as Mudros.

 

The first letter is dated July 28th 1918 and he had just left Mudros which was an hour and a half flying time away on the main land and behind the lines there is a reference to an officer called Clark and his sergeant an ex Master at Arms at Manston who went down over enemy lines and are taken prisoner.

The second dated 28th August which recounts a photo recce flight finishing with a bombing run on a german seaplane aerodrome

The last one was 25th August and recounts a raid from Mudros to Constantinople and him crash landing on the salt flats with bombs still in the cradles. He specifically mentions another officer called Severley who arrived at the front at a similar time to my grandfather he was from from Bournemouth.  His plane was hit in the petrol tank and he came down in the sea, he managed to swim 2.5 miles to land his gun layer was killed. 

Will try and get the letters uploaded shortly.

 

Rob, I'm wondering if Severley should be Savory?   Sqn Cdr KS Savory flew Handley Page 0/100 '3124' from the UK to Mudros and thereafter flew it on a mission on 10.7.17 to bomb the German ship Goeben which was in Stenia Bay, near Constantinople.

 

Shall read through the letter in the morning.

Edited 30 August , 2018 by pete-c

[pete-c]

11 hours ago, Rob B said:

Thanks Pete,

I have found three letters transcribed by my great Aunt from the front, one is specifically addressed  from D squadron 62 wing Aegean. I rather think he was mobile for a while as he mentioned serving on Stavros and Imbros as well as Mudros.

 

 

 

Rob,

Your grandfathers letter makes for interesting reading.   'D' Sqn (earlier designated 'D' Flight) was certainly at Stavros, taking up residence Aug/Sep 1916; their principal duties being the reconnaissance and bombing of targets in southern Bulgaria.   His description of the airfield site and accommodation at Stavros is spot on (see attached)   As he mentions, coming from the somewhat barren Mudros, this location must have seemed like paradise.

The photo of your grandfather in post #80 is interesting in that I now believe this shows him standing front of a 144 Sqn D.H.9 - this image possibly being taken at either Mudros, Mikra Bay (Salonika) or Amberkoj.   According to one source at least one of this Squadrons aircraft featured a long horizontal white line on the fuselage side, matching perfectly with the machine in the photo.

The two men mentioned on p3 of the letter - Clark & Ward - I haven't been able to pin down yet.  

 

[Alan Bentley]

Re the picture of the Voisin 8501:

F D H Bremner had a 10 min flight as a passenger with Lionel Hervey on the 27th of Dec. 1915 in 8501.

As a pure coincidence Hervey became a hotelier and died in his hotel in Ludlow in 1940. Bremner's grandson David (1264) lives in Ludlow.

[Rob B]

Thanks so much Pete for the context, names and photographs - its adds so much more to what we already know.

Here is the specific letter relating to the raid on Constantinople which is cracking Boys own stuff!

Regarding the spelling of Savory, you might well be right on that. Grandpas writing was atrocious and it was transcribed by his sister an Oxford blue stocking!

 

Constantinople raid page 1.pdf

Constantinople raid page 2.pdf

Constantinople raid page 3.pdf

[pete-c]

8 hours ago, Alan Bentley said:

Re the picture of the Voisin 8501:

F D H Bremner had a 10 min flight as a passenger with Lionel Hervey on the 27th of Dec. 1915 in 8501.

As a pure coincidence Hervey became a hotelier and died in his hotel in Ludlow in 1940. Bremner's grandson David (1264) lives in Ludlow.

 

Hi Alan,

Presumably this flight was up from Imbros; the attached image possibly recording the same event.   I saw David Bremner's Bristol Scout 1264 at Yeovilton a few weeks back and it now has a lovely patina, with authentic castor oil stains, just as it would have been in the Aegean.   It's a shame that Theo informed me of the need for a complete renewal of the fabric before too long!

Edited 30 August , 2018 by pete-c

[Rob B]

This is the third of the letters, although I fear only a part. Dated 28th August 1918 just over a hundred years ago.

Third letter of raid on 28 August 1918.pdf

[Rob B]

Pete, another letter has come to light dated 26th September 1918 where he recounts his adventures of being shot down.

As an aside Grandpa's father was the managing Director of a shipyard in the North East so prior to him leaving for war his father ensured he was trained in the essential repair of engines which proved fortuitous as here he managed to repair the damage and fly back to base.

Sept 1918 letter after being shot down.pdf

[MerchantOldSalt]

15 hours ago, pete-c said:

 

Rob,

Your grandfathers letter makes for interesting reading.   'D' Sqn (earlier designated 'D' Flight) was certainly at Stavros, taking up residence Aug/Sep 1916; their principal duties being the reconnaissance and bombing of targets in southern Bulgaria.   His description of the airfield site and accommodation at Stavros is spot on (see attached)   As he mentions, coming from the somewhat barren Mudros, this location must have seemed like paradise.

The photo of your grandfather in post #80 is interesting in that I now believe this shows him standing front of a 144 Sqn D.H.9 - this image possibly being taken at either Mudros, Mikra Bay (Salonika) or Amberkoj.   According to one source at least one of this Squadrons aircraft featured a long horizontal white line on the fuselage side, matching perfectly with the machine in the photo.

The two men mentioned on p3 of the letter - Clark & Ward - I haven't been able to pin down yet.  

 

 

 

Weekly Operations Report dated 6 Aug 1918, think this is what you are after Peter

Tony

 

#

[pete-c]

15 hours ago, MerchantOldSalt said:

 

 

Weekly Operations Report dated 6 Aug 1918, think this is what you are after Peter

Tony

 

 

#

 

Tony - Bingo!   Before I logged on to the Forum I was checking through the airhistory.org site - what a lot of Clarks/Clarkes!   Eventually I came across one man serving in the Aegean and then found a Sgt Ward, also in the same theatre.   Could these be the men I thought to myself?   I now have that confirmation - brilliant!   And they were repatriated safely after the War.

 

Cheers,

Peter.

 

[Rob B]

On 30/08/2018 at 21:58, MerchantOldSalt said:

 

 

Weekly Operations Report dated 6 Aug 1918, think this is what you are after Peter

Tony

 

#

 

Tony very many thanks for this.  I was delighted with the detail given in the report. It mirrors Grandpas letter of the 28th (third letter) and confirms he was with F mobile squadron and his was the fifth machine at the attack on the Galata aerodrome.

Have you got any information/Op reports that would tie in with him being shot down as mentioned in the final latter of the 26th September - family folklore has him missing for three days and even where the island was if it was included in his debrief?

The family Holy Grail is the quest for his DFC citation which was awarded in the Jan 1919 New Years awards and he is named in the Salonika supplement issued I think from memory in March 19 - any pointers or ideas greatly appreciated.

Stunning work and many thanks.  

 

[MerchantOldSalt]

Rob,

This page from the Weekly Operation Report No.7 dated 2nd October 1918 mentions the DH9 but not the names of the pilot or observer, remember these are weekly reports not squadron reports.  His landing on the island of Thasos for the night would fit in with the contents of his letter dated 26 Sept 1918.

 

The Buk Bridge, mentioned in the Report, was one of several bridges on the Salonika to Constantinople railway line, part of which was a vital logistic route for the Bulgarian Army, which the RNAS spent much of the war bombing and the Bulgarians and Turks rebuilding.  My Great Uncle who flew with "A" Squadron from Thasos and Stavros had a crack at the various bridges on several occasions, quite successfully too. The accompanying photo shows Buk Railway Bridge being bombed but it is NOT on the 22nd Sept 1918 but earlier in 1916.

 

Buk is now in Greece and called PARANESTI.  A bridge still carries the railway line today but much rebuilt!

 

Tony

 

Edited 1 September , 2018 by MerchantOldSalt

[Rob B]

6 hours ago, MerchantOldSalt said:

Rob,

This page from the Weekly Operation Report No.7 dated 2nd October 1918 mentions the DH9 but not the names of the pilot or observer, remember these are weekly reports not squadron reports.  His landing on the island of Thasos for the night would fit in with the contents of his letter dated 26 Sept 1918.

 

The Buk Bridge, mentioned in the Report, was one of several bridges on the Salonika to Constantinople railway line, part of which was a vital logistic route for the Bulgarian Army, which the RNAS spent much of the war bombing and the Bulgarians and Turks rebuilding.  My Great Uncle who flew with "A" Squadron from Thasos and Stavros had a crack at the various bridges on several occasions, quite successfully too. The accompanying photo shows Buk Railway Bridge being bombed but it is NOT on the 22nd Sept 1918 but earlier in 1916.

 

Buk is now in Greece and called PARANESTI.  A bridge still carries the railway line today but much rebuilt!

 

Tony

 

Tony this is outstanding, thanks so much, the weekly reports are really filling in the gaps as are the photos. From October onwards would it be fair to say that the front all but collapsed and much of the air activity was bombing runs on withdrawing enemy troop movements, this was one thing that Grandpa found hard to talk about.

Although much of his story telling was humorous the hard facts from the reports are very sobering and distinctly hairy. 

[MerchantOldSalt]

Rob,

That was certainly the situation, and it was not a good time for the remaining RAF fliers.  Stavros was closed down and the Squadrons based there moved to Marsh (Mudros) Aerodrome on Lemnos and I assume your Grandfather would have been amongst them.

 

Just one thing, you describe the photo in post #80 as a nice RNAS RFC pair, I don't think that is strictly correct.  Your Grandfather on the left is wearing RAF uniform with the single gold lace of a Flight Lieutenant.  The gentleman alongside him has no "wings", either pilots or observers, and is probably an army officer from one of the local regiments. The RNAS and RFC in Salonika were always short of pilots and observers, my GU started as an RNAS observer but retrained as a pilot in theatre because of the shortages.  He regularly flew with army officers as observers the Kings Royal Rifle Corp providing several, in fact one of the first, and successful attacks on the Buk Railway Bridge was carried out on 15 Oct 1916 by Flight Sub-Lieutenant B C Shoppee RNAS and Lieutenant Tansley of the 4th Kings Royal Rifles as observer during which they destroyed part of the bridge, Shoppee &Tansley dropped 3 x 100lb bombs from a Henri Farman hitting the bridge with one, not bad for a pongo who wasn't even in the RFC!

 

Tony

Edited 1 September , 2018 by MerchantOldSalt

[Rob B]

On 01/09/2018 at 18:57, MerchantOldSalt said:

Rob,

That was certainly the situation, and it was not a good time for the remaining RAF fliers.  Stavros was closed down and the Squadrons based there moved to Marsh (Mudros) Aerodrome on Lemnos and I assume your Grandfather would have been amongst them.

 

Just one thing, you describe the photo in post #80 as a nice RNAS RFC pair, I don't think that is strictly correct.  Your Grandfather on the left is wearing RAF uniform with the single gold lace of a Flight Lieutenant.  The gentleman alongside him has no "wings", either pilots or observers, and is probably an army officer from one of the local regiments. The RNAS and RFC in Salonika were always short of pilots and observers, my GU started as an RNAS observer but retrained as a pilot in theatre because of the shortages.  He regularly flew with army officers as observers the Kings Royal Rifle Corp providing several, in fact one of the first, and successful attacks on the Buk Railway Bridge was carried out on 15 Oct 1916 by Flight Sub-Lieutenant B C Shoppee RNAS and Lieutenant Tansley of the 4th Kings Royal Rifles as observer during which they destroyed part of the bridge, Shoppee &Tansley dropped 3 x 100lb bombs from a Henri Farman hitting the bridge with one, not bad for a pongo who wasn't even in the RFC!

 

Tony

Tony much appreciated, so many of the gaps are being filled in. Feel I need to do a serious map appreciation of the railway resupply route and look in detail at the various targets mentioned on this outstanding thread.

We have always considered the short gentleman to be an RFC observer, so to hear that various army units went out observing was an interesting turn.

Sadly Grandpas photo album has 'gone west' as he so cheerfully puts, it was given to an uncle. I know it had shots of his DH9 both ready to go and pranged, and a very similar picture to one posted earlier of a plane on its back with bombs in the cradle!

Really appreciate you and Peters efforts and encyclopedic knowledge of the Aegean theatre 

[MerchantOldSalt]

I beg his pardon, Lieutenant Tansley KRRC was trained as an observer in the RFC and went on to have an eventful career with them.

 

T

[Alan Bentley]

On ‎08‎/‎03‎/‎2018 at 09:03, Alan Bentley said:

Imbros

Old machine converted into test bench. Nov. 1915

P.O.Baird, C.P.O.Shipperbottom (love that name!), Lamrock, Cripps, Peacock (smoking pipe as usual).