Avro ? at Imbros

[pete-c]

More fascinating images Alan.   The next ones are eagerly awaited!

[Alan Bentley]

This is a mystery. It is in my father's RNAS album and it is obviously a list of Service personnel. Unfortunately the photo to which it refers has gone.

There is one name which stands out "Lt. Com. Colmore, C.O." I have traced a Sqn. Ldr. R B B Colmore who was killed in the R.101 crash.

Question; Is this relevant to the Gallipoli/RNAS period , or could it be when my father served briefly at Mullion?

Over to the experts.

[pete-c]

4 hours ago, Alan Bentley said:

This is a mystery. It is in my father's RNAS album and it is obviously a list of Service personnel. Unfortunately the photo to which it refers has gone.

There is one name which stands out "Lt. Com. Colmore, C.O." I have traced a Sqn. Ldr. R B B Colmore who was killed in the R.101 crash.

Question; Is this relevant to the Gallipoli/RNAS period , or could it be when my father served briefly at Mullion?

Over to the experts.

 

Alan,

Major RBB Colmore is certainly listed as Commanding Officer at Mullion on 20.8.1918 so, as you say, this list may well refer to a group photo of personnel at RNAS Mullion.  236 Squadron was formed at this location on the same date.

 

Fascinating list of names - working my way through them now. 

 

Peter.

Edited 10 March , 2018 by pete-c

[Alan Bentley]

My father's posting to Mullion (Daedalas) was from 31st Oct 1917 to sometime in 1918, and I cannot read the date. Pity the photo was lost, but he is on the list at bottom left.

Thanks for the info.

[pete-c]

23 hours ago, Alan Bentley said:

My father's posting to Mullion (Daedalas) was from 31st Oct 1917 to sometime in 1918, and I cannot read the date. Pity the photo was lost, but he is on the list at bottom left.

Thanks for the info.

 

There are some references to RNAS Mullion in Voices in Flight: The Royal Naval Air Service During the Great War by Malcolm Smith, Pen & Sword, 2014.

 

Edited 11 March , 2018 by pete-c

[Alan Bentley]

On ‎2‎/‎28‎/‎2018 at 10:54, Alan Bentley said:

[pete-c]

Bettington's death occurred on September 12th, 1917.  An Admiralty letter dated October 11th 1917, sent to Bettington's mother stated: 

At 5,000 feet, Bettington 's machine suddenly turned steeply to the left and dived 1,000 feet, partially recovered, but then got into a spin to the ground.  He was killed instantly.                          Cross & Cockade International Vol 34/1.

 

Presumably this letter, sent, as it was, nearly four weeks after the event and, following the publication of the above notice, was to clarify the exact circumstances of Bettington's demise to his mother.

Edited 5 April , 2018 by pete-c

[Alan Bentley]

The notice came out of my father's collection, as usual without comment from him.

Bettington's probate record states -"Bettington Aylmer Fitzwarine. Born Johannesburg S.A., arrived U.K. 13/5/1913, obtained pilots licence 8/11/1914 at R.A.F. Upavon , 20/9/1895 (note - this must be a publishers typo), Squadron Commander.I.C. No. 33/989 Eastchurch Naval Flying School (Pilot. Killed whilst flying Royal Naval Air Station Eastchurch in Avro 504B No. N6150 11 Sept 1917, Estate valued at £505/14/2".

 

Buried on Sheppey R.I.P.

Edited 6 April , 2018 by Alan Bentley

[Eschwege1917]

Dear friends,

 

Better late than never, I guess, so please allow me to comment on the various posts which followed Alan Bentley’s kindly sharing of his father’s album photos. Of course much and accurate information was supplied by good friends Tony, Peter and Bern, so I will focus on some details and make some corrections regarding the aircraft and personnel shown in these images. I apologize in advance for being lengthy, but I hope it will prove worth reading at the very end...

 

Posts #23 - #28

As Peter rightly commented, the photo at the top of the page shows Bristol Scout C ‘3040’ in service with A Sqn at Thasos. The aircraft soldiered on there well until early March 1917 and, indeed, the New Zealander FSL Philip Kenning Fowler flew it in a bombing escort mission to Yenikoj bridge on 7/3/1917. I attach a photo of the same aircraft on Thasos in the early part of 1917, found in FSL Fowler’s personal album. ‘Sorty’ Fowler (left) is shown with fellow FL Hugh Reston Aird from Canada.

 

The two photos at the bottom of the same page show a minor mishap of a Sopwith Type 9700 (bomber) flown by FSL Gerald Atkinson Magor, as pointed out by Tony. The photos were taken on Thasos and the aircraft was either ‘N5110’ or ‘N5119’ (I would opt for the latter). I did some image processing on the tail of the aircraft using the photo in Starbuck’s album and I attach it.

 

According to an enclosure in WOR #50 (2/3/1917), both aircraft were flying as Type 9700 (bombers) with A Sqn on Thasos. In late April 1917, however, ‘N5119’ was transferred to F Sqn who would operate the aircraft well until the 18th of May 1917; it seems it was the personal aircraft of the Canadian FSL Edward Stanley Boynton. Interestingly, a week later (25/5/1917) the aircraft does not appear in the Sqn records; instead, Boynton had been allotted ‘N5110’ (!) and he was reported flying this aircraft on bombing missions over the Livunovo bomb dumps and (Bulgarian) aerodrome. Possibly in the week between 18 and 25/5/1917, ‘N5119’ had been exchanged with ‘N5110’ which was serving with D Sqn at Stavros. F Sqn by then was flying from Marian (not Amberkoj) on the Struma front, very close to Stavros. In any case, ‘N5110’ seems to disappear after 26/5/1917 and I presume it was destroyed in the accidental explosion at Marian on the 27th. On the other hand, ‘N5119’ was later converted to a fighter (9400S) and joined G Sqn at Marsh aerodrome on Lemnos island.

As for Magor ... well, after being hit on the head by AA shrapnel when flying ‘N5532’ with F Sqn over the Angista train station (Struma front), he was lucky to regain consciousness, fly back and land safely at Marian aerodrome. He went three weeks off service.

 

Posts #31, #33

The ‘ancient mariner’, Short S.41 ‘10’, was indeed flown for the last time (as a landplane) on 16/12/1915 from Imbros. At 01.00 pm the airplane was seen to fall into the sea, but luckily E class destroyer HMS Chelmer was on the spot and rescued both pilot and observer. Pilot might well have been FSL Aylmer Fitzwarrine Bettington. The old Edgar class cruiser HMS Grafton was also nearby, hoisted the airplane out from the sea and also boarded (at 04.00 pm) the crew from HMS Chelmer. From HMS Grafton’s log book:

 

“1.0 Observed aeroplane fall into sea. Proceeded as reqte closing aeroplane

1.8 Stop & as reqte standing by to hoist aeroplane in from HMS Chelmer

2.20 Proceeded slow & as reqte towards Anzac

4.0 Pilot & observer came aboard”

 

Attached are some of the images found in C&CI Vol34/1, which come from Bettington’s personal album.

 

As for the cause, Wing Captain Frederick Hugh Sykes, commanding RNAS EMS at that time, wrote in his report: “The brunt of the work was carried out by the Aeroplane Wings to the personnel of which much credit is due especially in view of the fact that a total of only 19 aeroplanes was available. The necessity of flying low owing to clouds has entailed that most cases of engine failure have resulted in descents into the sea. the loss or disablement of machines from this cause has been considerable”. The Short was powered by a 135hp Canton-Unne. I also attach an image of Short S.41 ‘10’ I have in my collection which shows the airplane on Imbros, behind the three well known Voisin III (see also Post #36 by Peter).

 

 

Post #49

The officer shown is not Bettington. Bettington never served on Thasos. In fact, upon returning from a short leave to Alexandria in March 1916, he returned to Imbros and was diagnosed with neurasthenia (nervous exhaustion) which brought on partial paralysis of his right leg. He was sent to Malta’s Bighi Hospital on 12 June in HMHS Rewa, but then on 17 July was recommended for return to the UK and ended up at the Royal Naval Hospital at Chatham. Thasos aerodrome was set up on the last week of May 1916 and for sure Bettington was not included in the flight crews arranged to make the first flights from Imbros and Lemnos to the new aerodrome. So, who is the officer shown at the top left corner of the page?

 

He is FL Hugh Reston Aird, the Canadian, a very competent pilot who also engaged himself in making a sailing boat out of two Sopwith Schneider seaplane pontoons. Similar photos appear in Fowler’s album and I attach one of them. By the way, Aird was finally made POW along with FL John William Alcock of the (1919) famous transatlantic flight and WO2(F) S.J. Wise when their aircraft, the one and only HP O/100 (‘3124’) in the Aegean, was shot in the engine and finally ditched in the Gulf of Xeros on 30/9/1917.  

 

That was all for tonight. I am looking forward to receiving your comments.

 

All the best,

Paschalis Palavouzis

Kavala (opposite Thasos :-)

 

P.S. I hope tomorrow I find some time to comment (and give details) on E.C. Cramp's images included in Bern's post "RNAS air mechanic with Ark Royal: Photo Album" 

[pete-c]

Paschalis - as always you have provided us with so many informative details - many thanks.   And I for one look forward to your comments regarding the EC Cramp photos.   The image of the line of Voisins and the Ancient Mariner is the sharpest I have seen, so thank you for that.   The slight difference in the application of the rudder markings on all three Voisins is curious , isn't it.

 

Cheers,

Peter.

 

[Alan Bentley]

My thanks indeed for all of you who have added to my knowledge of my father's service. As usual there are always more questions.

His album has entries  written as - Imbros, Thasos, Stavros, and Lemnos (Varos and Mudros). Is it likely that 2 Wing would have moved en bloc to these locations, or that detachments would have moved around?

And finally ,for now another mystery. This is a rather small picture with the caption "Imbros 19 Mar 1916, Bristol Scout, needing new propeller". Who did it?

[pete-c]

26 minutes ago, Alan Bentley said:

My thanks indeed for all of you who have added to my knowledge of my father's service. As usual there are always more questions.

His album has entries  written as - Imbros, Thasos, Stavros, and Lemnos (Varos and Mudros). Is it likely that 2 Wing would have moved en bloc to these locations, or that detachments would have moved around?

And finally ,for now another mystery. This is a rather small picture with the caption "Imbros 19 Mar 1916, Bristol Scout, needing new propeller". Who did it?

 

I believe this is Scout Type C '1264' the pilot being FDH 'Bunny' Bremner.  Attached is another view of the same incident.  Paschalis can possibly add some more details of this event.

[Alan Bentley]

That must have been the Bremner who was at the 1957 Ark Royal Reunion with my father. What stories they must have told.

It is funny to think that he and my father met again after ,say 40years, and I think of them as old men.I left the RAF (NS) 66 years ago, and I don't regard myself as old!

[pete-c]

40 minutes ago, Alan Bentley said:

That must have been the Bremner who was at the 1957 Ark Royal Reunion with my father. What stories they must have told.

It is funny to think that he and my father met again after ,say 40years, and I think of them as old men.I left the RAF (NS) 66 years ago, and I don't regard myself as old!

 

Alan, are you aware of the 'Bremner' Scout replica that has been flying for the last couple of years?  If not, check out  this link:    https://bristolscout.wordpress.com/

 

I keep telling myself that 60 is the new 30.  However, my knees sometimes tell me something completely different!

[Eschwege1917]

Dear Peter,

 

Yes, you are absolutely right. It is Bristol Scout C '1264', FSL Francis Donald H. Bremner's much beloved airplane, and it is the first time we have a look of the crash site from a different perspective, thanks to Alan's father. Dear Alan we are truly thankful for your sharing of these much precious photos.

 

Now, a few details about the crash as found in Bremner's logbook, under date 20 March 1916 (and not 19 March as indicated in the album):

 

"Testing machine with le Rhône engine and le Rhône Bristol prop. Machine excelled in every way. About nine knots faster and climbed wonderfully well but I did not time the climb. Strong gusty north east wind. Crashed on landing. Exactly what happened heaven only knows. I intended to land rather faster than usual on account to extra weight in nose (though it did not make her nose heavy in the air) and I must have had a good deal of drift on. Why the devil didn’t I see that? Two crashes in two days, and I was flying very well in the air. Poor old ’64, she was such a ripper and I did love her. Only two machines have I so far damaged in any way, and they were the two machines I loved best".  

 

But what was the other machine damaged by Bremner and when? In fact it was another Bristol Scout C '1259' and the accident had happened only a couple of days earlier (18 March 1916)! Again, from his logbook:

 

"Started to accompany Savory. On evening reconnaissance, but I got to just 1000 ft over K beach when the engine suddenly cut right out. I turned right and glided down wind and then turned right again and attempted to land. I turned in a bit too late and turning into the wind at first away all control over machine. I managed to get just into the aerodrome, but could not stop the drift and was obliged to pancake a bit. My undercarriage carried away and I went first onto my left wing and then turned completely over, the machine still pointing up the aerodrome. She went over very slowly and I did not hurt myself a bit. Machine pretty well wrecked. If I had only turned sooner it would have been all right, but I did not like the sand dunes and the new Bessoneau, and I had a sort of instinctive desire to get over the salt lake, because I knew I could pancake into that without hurting myself much. There was a very strong northerly wind. The failure of the throttle mechanism on the carburettor seems to have been the cause. My first smash. I did not mind it in the least".

 

I am sure David Bremner, Donald 'Bunnie' Bremner's grandson, a good friend altogether will be fascinated to see the images. I 'll let him know. By the way, please let me upload a couple of photos I had taken during David's epic reenactment on Thasos a couple of years ago on the occassion of the centenial seremonies for the set up of the aerodrome at Kazaviti. Tony was also with us on Thasos. A truly unforgettable moment! David's blog (as indicated by Peter) has the whole story from the beginning and there is much historical background there, too. 

 

All the best,

Paschalis 

[Alan Bentley]

Thanks again for those pictures.

Again from the album it says "Thasos. Air Station Kasaviti"

No date, but the building does not look military ,is it still there?

[pete-c]

12 hours ago, Alan Bentley said:

Thanks again for those pictures.

Again from the album it says "Thasos. Air Station Kasaviti"

No date, but the building does not look military ,is it still there?

 

This is likely to be one of the buildings of the village/town of Kasaviti.   Very few structures of a 'permanant' nature were constructed on any of the bases used by the Allies - hangars and accommodation all being of the temporary transportable type.   The stone and timber from the more solid weather resistant structures that were built - mainly by local Greek labourers - were, no doubt, very quickly re-used by the local population following the cessation of hostilities.   The building featured in the photo may well have been utilised as an H.Q. and, judging from what appears to be a wheelbarrow in the foreground, the base is still in the process of being set up.   This building may well have survived to this day.

Edited 11 April , 2018 by pete-c

[Eschwege1917]

Hello my friends,

 

Although I am not so good in architecture enigmas, I can confirm that the image in question refers to a two storey building at Skala Kazaviti, which was / is (today is known as Skala Prinos) the little port of Kazaviti, the village up in the mountains. The perspective is east; visible are the hills behind (in fact they are quite close behind) sloping gently down to the sea. If one stands on the seafront at Skala Kazaviti, there is no way one can find any hills to the west, simply because, as Donald 'Bunnie' Bremner had accurately put it, Thasos aerodrome was on "a piece of land which rather jutted out into the sea". It must have been stone built, plastered and whitewashed, although most buildings on the Greek islands were left unplastered in those days. One can easily spot the stairs on the right side (as one looks at the photo) and there is a stone fence infront. No chimneys (!) on the roof, something extremely uncommon to the houses of the day, and I wonder whether it might have housed the offices of various public services. 

 

I could easily place it on the western (closer to the aerodrome) or eastern (closer to the disembarkation point) extremities of Skala Kazaviti and, indeed, judging from the various photos of that period concerning the activities around Thasos aerodrome, it seems that such buildings existed on both sides. None was used by the RNAS or RMLI units on the island; there are no such findings in the archives or the personal log books and diaries. The men used to stay in bell tents among the olive trees or on the beach, had their mess in a tent, and only the RMLI unit guarding the place and manning the anti-aircraft guns had some wooden huts made out of tree planks. Locals were always being hired to help improve the infrastructure - a loaf of bread, bully beef in tins, cigarettes or coffee being the usual reward - and their descendants remember even today their sayings. So, Peter is right. 

 

But what are the likely candidates for the place? 

 

Concerning the western part of Skala Kazaviti, one has to bear in mind that it was clearly visible from the aerodrome. So, in some photos (looking, however, NE/N) there appears a whitewashed building with no chimneys, possibly having stairs by the wall. However, this one might have been a one storey, although it is difficult to judge from that distance. I attach a photo from Fowler's album (it is cut) that shows two of the Bristols Scouts on readiness at Thasos and, then, far in the background the buildings on the western edge of Skala Kazaviti. I have placed the building in a red square.

 

I would opt for the second option though. This one shows a definately two storey building on the eastern extremities of Skala Kazaviti. It fits very well to the description at the beginning of this post. Attached below is a photo found in two different albums (Starbuck's held by Tony and a Royal Marine's held by Simon Jervis), which show the transportation of a derelict German seaplane to Thasos (1917). The building in question is in the red square... So, you decide :-)

 

None of these buildings exist.

 

Best Regards,

Paschalis

 

P.S. I have also attached a Google earth map of the aerodrome area with (modern) Skala Kazaviti clearly visible. Hope it helps...     

[pete-c]

Great investigating Paschalis.   I wonder what the Greek residents thought of our tinned bully beef - especially in the summer months!

[Alan Bentley]

I have been ignoring this picture because of it's poor quality. It is labelled "Sick bay", which is RAF slang for medical centre.

Again Kasaviti , and this must be another view of  the original photo. So the Military obviously took over , or possibly built, some more permanent buildings. There is another picture on this page of "Lone Pine Hill". Does this have any significance?.

Thanks again for all the local  knowledge.

[pete-c]

I'm sure Paschalis will be interested in your father's annotation of this photo Alan as it seems that this could be the same building.   Could that be a chimney for a stove of some sort, exiting above the doorway at the top of the stairs?  

 

Lone Pine was an area on the Gallipoli peninsula fought over following the landings at Anzac Cove on April 25th 1915.   There are many references to it on the Forum so a quick search for it may well be of interest to you.

Edited 11 April , 2018 by pete-c

[Eschwege1917]

Aaaa! Yes Alan, now everything becomes clearer. It is indeed the Sick bay and this is the first picture of it, I have ever come across. I knew they had one, but I thought it must have been in the camp area. Obviously it wasn't. RN Surgeons Morris and Baines were some of the doctors there.

 

However, this medical center could not cope with the many diseases which were spreading amongst the personnel, especially during the summer season. I am referring especially to malaria and dysentery. In the beginning (July 1916) the victims had to be transferred to Stavros hospital on the mainland. Next year, however, the HQ decided to set up a proper military hospital on Thasos and they chose the large office building of Speidel, a German who had been the owner of a mining company at Limenaria, on the south part of the island. This was done in July 1917 and the medical treatment there of both military personnel and locals, lasted until the end of the war. One of the most prominent persons to work at Limenaria hospital was the matron Lillian Oimara Doughty-Wylie, widow of Lt Col Charles Hotham Montagu "Richard" Doughty-Wylie, who had lost his life while attacking Sedd-el-Bahr at Cape Helles on the Gallipoli peninsula. He was awarded a VC for his gallant action. Lillian was awarded (among others) the Greek Cross of Military Merit for her services at Thasos hospital... By the way, the Sick bay was run as long as there were flying operations from Thasos.

 

Now, regarding the "lone pine hill" image, I think it refers to one of the hills behind the aerodrome on Thasos, where the RMLI had at least one anti-aircraft gun. It was camouflaged underneath the one and only pine tree present on the hill top! Could we possibly have a look at the image? Otherwise it may refer to that place on Gallipoli, as Peter has already pointed out...

 

Best Regards,

Paschalis

[Alan Bentley]

This is Lone Pine Hill. Some of the photos have faded badly after 100 years.

[Eschwege1917]

Hi Alan,

 

Yes, this is the hill behind the aerodrome (visible below, on the area that juts out to the sea) and there used to be an anti-aircraft gun (6 pdr), manned by a RMLI unit. I am sure there were other pine trees around but probably this was the tallest... What is interesting is that, although Thasos island is densely wooded, this hill in particular still has only a few trees on the top. 

 

Rgds,

Paschalis

[Alan Bentley]

On ‎20‎/‎02‎/‎2018 at 21:36, b3rn said:

Hi Alan, 

• Aylmer Fitzwarrine Bettington
• Arthur Bruce Gaskell (note also T/FSL Holbrook Lance Gaskell, 2 Wing from Dec 1916, KIA 2.5.1917 - no relation)
• Horace Austin Buss
• Harvey – don't know!

Have you seen these articles in Cross and Cockade? Great photos and info.

 

The War Diary of a NAVAL AIRMAN 1915-1918
Captain Augustine Francis Marlowe
via P.G. Cooksley
Cross & Cockade International 21/2 2003

 

SONS OF THE AIR by Peter Wright
"It is not often that one has to go back in history to the years before the Boer War, to introduce the story of a family with aviation connections on the scale of the Bettingtons."
Cross & Cockade International 34/1 2003

 

FROM THE ALBUM OF A PETTY OFFICER PHOTOGRAPHIC AIR MECHANIC
F5533 WILLIAM 'BILL' POLLARD
Edited by Mick Davis
Cross & Cockade International 38/2 2007
Cross & Cockade International 38/3 2007

 

FSL Philip Kenning Fowler
His Service in the Aegean
by Paschalis Palavouzis
Cross & Cockade International 44 Spring 2013

Arthur Bruce Gaskell was Sqd. Comm. RNA S on Gibraltar from 25/2/16 to 28/2/ 17. He was posted to the Ark Royal, 2Wing RNAS from 28/2/17 to 31/9/19. So we have a different A B Gaskell with 2 Wing Imbros at the end of 1916.