Mesopotamia 1917-18, BAC Abbreviation

[joany]

Hi

I am researching my grandfather's service in India and Mesopotamia and have been fortunate in finding a War Diary for his unit from Oct 1917 to Dec 1918. He had been in 217th (3rd Wessex) Brigade in India, and on being sent to Mesopotamia in Oct 2016 the men from his unit who had been sent there were attached to the 215th (1/1 Wessex) Brigade RFA. He was a territorial, having originally been in the 1st Wiltshire RFA TA, mainly Swindon men from the GWR factory like my grandfather. Not being a military person myself, I am struggling with army terms, and my query if you can help me please is this:-

On reading the War Diary, there are two x 215th units mentioned, one referred to as 'Headquarters 215th FAB (or FHB, not sure), please see screenshot below. I need to be sure which part of the unit he was attached to in order to get the story I am writing about him correct. I know that BAC means Brigade Ammunition Column, thanks to The Long Long Trail Army Abbreviations list, but FAB does not appear on the list, and I thought that an Ammunition Column was a separate unit to Field Artillery Unit. I have thought 215 FAB means 'Field Artillery Battery' perhaps. Only the 215th BAC are mentioned in any action, the HQ 215  FAB are only mentioned if they are marching from one camp to another, is that the organisational section of the unit?  Can anyone tell me if the Gunners of the RFA would have been attached to the Ammunition Brigade please?

Many Thanks

Joan

Edited 19 February , 2018 by joany
Wrong dates

[Ron Clifton]

Hello Joan, and welcome to the Forum!

 

FAB is Field Artillery Brigade. 215th FAB was a pre-war unit, and had three batteries (1, 2 and 3 Hampshire) and a Brigade Ammunition Column (originally 1/1 Wessex, as was the brigade). The BAC was an integral part of the brigade and was, in effect, rather like an extra battery but with no guns.

 

In France, BACs were withdrawn from brigades and absorbed into Divisional Ammunition Columns (DACs) in mid-1916. In other theatres the BACs often remained with their brigades, and even in France, BACs re-emerged in 1917 for those brigades which no longer formed part of a specific division. Both BACs and DACs consisted of men of the RFA.

 

Ron

[David Porter]

Joan,

 

I think you have misunderstood what the War Diary is showing you. ALL the units shown belong to 215th Brigade RFA, not just the HQ and BAC. So you have to factor in at least 1086 Bty (was A/215) and 1088 Bty (was C/215) in possible postings. 524 Bty was a howitzer battery and he would not have had experience of those guns, so doubtful. You are correct in saying FAB is Field Artillery Brigade and there will be gunners in a Brigade Ammunition Column. 

[joany]

Thank you both, that is really helpful. I did find it confusing when the title of the War Diary said 215th Wessex Brigade RFA then mentioned 215th separately to 1086, 1088 and 524 within the content.  What you are saying then is that my grandfather could have been in any one of the units, taking part in artillery practices or action taken by 1086,1088 or 215th BAC.  Do you know if there are any records existing, or where to look, that give the names of the gunners attached to each battery? I know that records were destroyed in a fire in 1940, but wondered if any others existed. What museum or record office may have them? I can't find the War Diary for Oct 1916-Oct 1917 for 215th either which is a shame

Many Thanks

Joan

[David Porter]

3 hours ago, joany said:

Do you know if there are any records existing, or where to look, that give the names of the gunners attached to each battery?

 

Alas, a lot of nominal rolls and all the Part 2 Orders showing postings, leave, illnesses etc. were also destroyed in the 1940 fire. That is why this Forum has so many questions that are difficult to answer. You may find him in a casualty list if he ever went to hospital or a casualty clearing station. Can you give his name and number(s)?

 

3 hours ago, joany said:

I can't find the War Diary for Oct 1916-Oct 1917 for 215th either which is a shame

 

It comes under WO 95/5100/3, which when downloading from the National Archives will come in 2 parts. The diary you want will be in the first part.

[joany]

Many thanks David, I have now downloaded the War Diary and it is fascinating tracing on Google Earth where my grandfather's unit served, and the routes they marched through Iraq. It must have been punishing marching 5 1/2 hours each day, with an average of 20 kilometres a day from Basra to Amara.

His name was Arthur James Gunter, and his numbers were 1638 and later 860961. His younger cousin had exactly the same name but served in France, so his army service cannot be confused with my grandfather's.

 

My mother, now 93, has always said that her father told her that he had marched over the Khyber Pass, but I don't know when or why. A quick read through the diaries shows no reference to the unit going there, although in other GWF discussions I have seen someone mention their relative taking part in the  'Advance on the Khyber Pass'. It is thousands of miles away from Iraq and through two countries, can you throw any light on this at all please? Could it have been whilst he was still based in India? He was in the 43rd Wessex Division and went to India in Oct 1914, based in Delhi.

Kind Regards

Joan

[Ron Clifton]

Joan

 

He may have taken part in the Third Afghan War in 1919. That could well have involved marching over the Khyber Pass.

 

Ron

[MaureenE]

24 minutes ago, Ron Clifton said:

 

He may have taken part in the Third Afghan War in 1919. That could well have involved marching over the Khyber Pass.

If he took part in the 3rd Afghan War, he would have received an India General Service Medal with clasp Afghanistan/NWF 1919. The medal rolls for the recipients are on Ancestry.

 

Even if you cannot find a medal for him, he may have been in the British controlled area near the Khyber Pass. There was a cantonment at Landi Kotal.

Online photograph: The army camp at Landi Kotal. (British Museum website)

 

Cheers

Maureen

[joany]

Hi Ron and Maureen

Many thanks for your help, I have been on Ancestry and FMP for over 10 years and already have the medal roll, my mother also knew which medals he had, the British War Medal and the Victory Medal, I have one of them. He was dismissive of them as he said they were worthless because everyone got them, he was a very modest man. However, we are all proud of him and that is one reason why I want to write his WW1 story.  I am currently writing a book about my Gunter family line which I have DNA proof may go back to 1066 and a Knight who came over with William the Conqueror, but I do need to verify other information I have before I can be certain I am correct. The chapter on Grandad's WW1 service is an important part of my book.

Grandad was de-mobbed after Iraq, going home in 1919 I believe. Mum has always said that her father did not get a war pension but doesn't know why, she thinks he may have been de-mobbed early as his mother needed his financial support at home, his father had died in 1913. My grandmother was always cross about him not receiving a pension, my mother says, and appeared to blame her mother-in-law. Could it be possible that he did initially march over the Khyber Pass to take part in the 3rd Afghan War but was sent home from there? What you have said about the camp near the Khyber Pass, Maureene, may be the answer too, he might have just told my mother that he was at the Khyber Pass and she has remembered it incorrectly. I will look at the British Museum Website, thank you for that. Would they have gone back to India first before going to the Khyber Pass?

 

Many Thanks again

Joan

[Ron Clifton]

1 hour ago, joany said:

My grandmother was always cross about him not receiving a pension, my mother says, and appeared to blame her mother-in-law.

There were two types of Army pension: pensions for wounds, and pensions for long service (22 years plus). Very few men who were not in the Army before 1914 would have qualified for a long service pension, so unless your grandfather was wounded, it is unlikely that he would have qualified for a pension.

 

Ron

[joany]

Thank you Ron, that explains it. He was in the territorials before the war but was only 21 when the war started so even if he joined the TA at 17 would have only served 8 or 9 years total, and I don't imagine TA service was pensionable anyway. As far as I am aware he was not wounded, although he had malaria twice and also dysentery, which caused lifelong problems with his health, although he held down a job at the GWR factory in Swindon until retirement so it didn't affect him working. As with all family stories distortion happens over time, and mis-understandings too, and that is what has happened with this story.